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	<title>Comments on: Why Are Jews Liberals? By David Forsmark</title>
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		<title>By: Morrisminor</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-27517</link>
		<dc:creator>Morrisminor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-27517</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I laughed when he, Forsmark, a Southern Baptist, said he never heard an anti-semtiic remark till he went to a union meeting. He must have selective hearing problems. Also his proxy quote about Jewish mothers teaching their daughters as soon as they learned to talk Hitler banning abortions is utter rubbish. It&#039;s people like Forsmark with his innate bigotry who drives Jews away from conservatism. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I laughed when he, Forsmark, a Southern Baptist, said he never heard an anti-semtiic remark till he went to a union meeting. He must have selective hearing problems. Also his proxy quote about Jewish mothers teaching their daughters as soon as they learned to talk Hitler banning abortions is utter rubbish. It&#39;s people like Forsmark with his innate bigotry who drives Jews away from conservatism.</p>
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		<title>By: AlFranken1</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>AlFranken1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:58:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-266</guid>
		<description>Being a rebel of a sort of this website and having controversial opinions, I have experienced this sort of censorship before. &lt;br&gt;I once pointed out that the person they interviewed was viewed as a liberal and they kept deleting me. I would change the wording and try to be more friendly but they kept deleting it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I figured that if I wait at least eight hours, maybe a new watchman would take over. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sure enough, that worked. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There seems to be at least one watchman who doesn&#039;t appreciate our American values and seems to be threatened by adversarial remarks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a rebel of a sort of this website and having controversial opinions, I have experienced this sort of censorship before. <br />I once pointed out that the person they interviewed was viewed as a liberal and they kept deleting me. I would change the wording and try to be more friendly but they kept deleting it.</p>
<p>I figured that if I wait at least eight hours, maybe a new watchman would take over. </p>
<p>Sure enough, that worked. </p>
<p>There seems to be at least one watchman who doesn&#39;t appreciate our American values and seems to be threatened by adversarial remarks.</p>
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		<title>By: WFB2</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>WFB2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-264</guid>
		<description>Thanks a lot for your response. I&#039;ll check the wikipedia ref. you provided. Shalom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks a lot for your response. I&#39;ll check the wikipedia ref. you provided. Shalom</p>
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		<title>By: michaelgarfinkel</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelgarfinkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Well, the issue is not Jewish &quot;ness&quot; at all, and the race for the exits began in earnest with the Enlightenment, a century before Marx.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The burden I speak of is the obligation imposed upon the Jewish people through their covenant with God; indeed without the Covenant, there is no Judaism.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Check this for a quick reference: &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_p...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the issue is not Jewish &#8220;ness&#8221; at all, and the race for the exits began in earnest with the Enlightenment, a century before Marx.</p>
<p>The burden I speak of is the obligation imposed upon the Jewish people through their covenant with God; indeed without the Covenant, there is no Judaism.</p>
<p>Check this for a quick reference: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_people" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_p.." rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_as_a_chosen_p..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: WFB2</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>WFB2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 00:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-259</guid>
		<description>&quot;...[Jews] vote against their own interests because they are in rebellion against the burden that G-d and history has imposed upon them.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This leaves open the vexing question of what it is that defines being a Jew. As a non-Jew I&#039;ve had to do some reading to try to find a meaningful answer. The closest I got was an exellent book by Sylvia Barack Fishman titled &quot;The Way into the Varieties of Jewishness&quot; Note the key word &quot;varieties&quot; and the term Jewish&quot;ness&quot;.&lt;br&gt;Both imply a vagueness which the book does not dispel despite being very interesting and well-written. My &quot;take away&quot; from Fishman&#039;s book was her description of being Jewish as a &quot;sense of peoplehood&quot;. Still vague.&lt;br&gt;Judaic piety has been in decline since Marx so that&#039;s obviously not a key element either. My only conclusion is that family lineage is what links Jewish identity. So just what is &quot;the burden&quot; that Jews, in all their variety, are rebelling against?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;[Jews] vote against their own interests because they are in rebellion against the burden that G-d and history has imposed upon them.&#8221;</p>
<p>This leaves open the vexing question of what it is that defines being a Jew. As a non-Jew I&#39;ve had to do some reading to try to find a meaningful answer. The closest I got was an exellent book by Sylvia Barack Fishman titled &#8220;The Way into the Varieties of Jewishness&#8221; Note the key word &#8220;varieties&#8221; and the term Jewish&#8221;ness&#8221;.<br />Both imply a vagueness which the book does not dispel despite being very interesting and well-written. My &#8220;take away&#8221; from Fishman&#39;s book was her description of being Jewish as a &#8220;sense of peoplehood&#8221;. Still vague.<br />Judaic piety has been in decline since Marx so that&#39;s obviously not a key element either. My only conclusion is that family lineage is what links Jewish identity. So just what is &#8220;the burden&#8221; that Jews, in all their variety, are rebelling against?</p>
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		<title>By: LucyQ</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-252</link>
		<dc:creator>LucyQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-252</guid>
		<description>&quot;As someone who grew up in Baptist Sunday School and never heard an anti-Semitic word before adulthood (at a union meeting) this makes sense to me.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As someone who has been in many churches including Baptist ones, you are a LIAR. I&#039;ve often wondered what if the anti-Semitism, such as the lie that Jews killed Jesus, a committed rabbi, was taken out of Christianity, would there be anything of substance left?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As far as the usual pro-choice position taken by most Jews: they are following the Original Testament that Jesus followed too which states that one who is not born yet isn&#039;t human until he can live independently of his mother, either by being born or by C-section. Sounds very reasonable to me. Why did David Forsmark exclude the position&lt;br&gt;advocated by the Bible?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am a pro-choice Jew for the reason above and the following reason: I&#039;m not anti-unborn children; I am pro-born children. I know for a fact that in the US, less available legal abortion creates more born orphans living in orphanages. That means taxes would have to be raised and the right-wing Christians are against having taxes raised.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thus, the right-wing Christian position regarding abortion is phony. How can America properly raise millions of new orphans if a large population of our society doesn&#039;t want to pay for it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As someone who grew up in Baptist Sunday School and never heard an anti-Semitic word before adulthood (at a union meeting) this makes sense to me.&#8221;</p>
<p>As someone who has been in many churches including Baptist ones, you are a LIAR. I&#39;ve often wondered what if the anti-Semitism, such as the lie that Jews killed Jesus, a committed rabbi, was taken out of Christianity, would there be anything of substance left?</p>
<p>As far as the usual pro-choice position taken by most Jews: they are following the Original Testament that Jesus followed too which states that one who is not born yet isn&#39;t human until he can live independently of his mother, either by being born or by C-section. Sounds very reasonable to me. Why did David Forsmark exclude the position<br />advocated by the Bible?</p>
<p>I am a pro-choice Jew for the reason above and the following reason: I&#39;m not anti-unborn children; I am pro-born children. I know for a fact that in the US, less available legal abortion creates more born orphans living in orphanages. That means taxes would have to be raised and the right-wing Christians are against having taxes raised.</p>
<p>Thus, the right-wing Christian position regarding abortion is phony. How can America properly raise millions of new orphans if a large population of our society doesn&#39;t want to pay for it?</p>
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		<title>By: Grachus</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-244</link>
		<dc:creator>Grachus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-244</guid>
		<description>Podhoretz is right that many Jews subscribe to a new &#039;liberal&#039; religion that has filled the spiritual vacuum left from their rejection of real religion. But that&#039;s not how they see it. They DO know they adhere to a substutute for religion - but they think it&#039;s rationalism. They suffer under the delusion that rationalism = modern liberalism.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Since we are not going to see a return to real religion among these Jews anytime soon, the proper tactic is to disabuse them of their delusion. Hammer them with the facts about left-wing abandonment of Israel, conservative support for Israel, left-wing subversion and abuse of science in areas such as education, nutrition, public health, anthropology, and energy, left-wing ahistoric and non-empiric approaches to foreign policy, the equal and opposite presence of left-wing kooks (of which they tend to be completely unaware) to match if not exceed those on the right and so on.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As the &#039;liberal&#039; monopoly on sources of information loosens, and we force these people to face up the the meaning of their STATED and admitted beliefs, we do have a chance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Podhoretz is right that many Jews subscribe to a new &#39;liberal&#39; religion that has filled the spiritual vacuum left from their rejection of real religion. But that&#39;s not how they see it. They DO know they adhere to a substutute for religion &#8211; but they think it&#39;s rationalism. They suffer under the delusion that rationalism = modern liberalism.</p>
<p>Since we are not going to see a return to real religion among these Jews anytime soon, the proper tactic is to disabuse them of their delusion. Hammer them with the facts about left-wing abandonment of Israel, conservative support for Israel, left-wing subversion and abuse of science in areas such as education, nutrition, public health, anthropology, and energy, left-wing ahistoric and non-empiric approaches to foreign policy, the equal and opposite presence of left-wing kooks (of which they tend to be completely unaware) to match if not exceed those on the right and so on.</p>
<p>As the &#39;liberal&#39; monopoly on sources of information loosens, and we force these people to face up the the meaning of their STATED and admitted beliefs, we do have a chance.</p>
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		<title>By: michaelgarfinkel</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-241</link>
		<dc:creator>michaelgarfinkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-241</guid>
		<description>Why are Jews Liberals? may very well be the season&#039;s &quot;essential&quot; book, with much to recommend it, but I take issue with one important point: there is no &quot;new Torah of liberalism&quot; for the people of the book.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The attitudes that inform Mr. Podhoretz&#039;s metaphor are neither new, Torah like, nor liberal. In fact, they are nothing more than a manifestation of an age-old problem: the narcissistic rebellion against authority, recounted perfectly in Exodus 32 - the story of the worship of the Golden Calf.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Indeed, since the issue of abortion was discussed, one could argue persuasively that the worship of the Calf provides feminists with the appearence, at least, of a reprieve from the proscriptions of Genesis 3:16.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Regarding the reviewer&#039;s accurate comment that &quot;Brzenzinksi was partially responsible for Jimmy Carter’s record low vote totals among Jewish voters&quot;, it is important to note that Carter and Brzenzinski might never have gotten near the White House without the 71% of the Jewish vote and the material support Jews provided in 1976. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After four ruinous years, as Carter signaled an impending betrayal of Israel, he still garnered 45% of the Jewish vote, while Anderson received 14%.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I submit that Jews don&#039;t &quot;vote against their own interests&quot; out of a desire to pursue a higher, universal &quot;liberal&quot; good; they vote against their own interests because they are in rebellion against the burden that G-d and history has imposed upon them. In an important sense, they find themselves compelled by anti-semitism itself. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Once this is understood, the mystery of vast numbers of Jews in the precincts of the anti-semitic Left is dispelled.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Abetted by the 78% of the Jewish vote received by Mr. Obama, the political situation as it exists today, so clearly evident at the U.N., must be viewed with the utmost gravity. Indeed, It appears that the Jewish people are again on the precipice of catastrophe.&lt;br&gt;.&lt;br&gt;Again, I refer to Exodus, 32:34 &quot;Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are Jews Liberals? may very well be the season&#39;s &#8220;essential&#8221; book, with much to recommend it, but I take issue with one important point: there is no &#8220;new Torah of liberalism&#8221; for the people of the book.</p>
<p>The attitudes that inform Mr. Podhoretz&#39;s metaphor are neither new, Torah like, nor liberal. In fact, they are nothing more than a manifestation of an age-old problem: the narcissistic rebellion against authority, recounted perfectly in Exodus 32 &#8211; the story of the worship of the Golden Calf.</p>
<p>Indeed, since the issue of abortion was discussed, one could argue persuasively that the worship of the Calf provides feminists with the appearence, at least, of a reprieve from the proscriptions of Genesis 3:16.</p>
<p>Regarding the reviewer&#39;s accurate comment that &#8220;Brzenzinksi was partially responsible for Jimmy Carter’s record low vote totals among Jewish voters&#8221;, it is important to note that Carter and Brzenzinski might never have gotten near the White House without the 71% of the Jewish vote and the material support Jews provided in 1976. </p>
<p>After four ruinous years, as Carter signaled an impending betrayal of Israel, he still garnered 45% of the Jewish vote, while Anderson received 14%.</p>
<p>I submit that Jews don&#39;t &#8220;vote against their own interests&#8221; out of a desire to pursue a higher, universal &#8220;liberal&#8221; good; they vote against their own interests because they are in rebellion against the burden that G-d and history has imposed upon them. In an important sense, they find themselves compelled by anti-semitism itself. </p>
<p>Once this is understood, the mystery of vast numbers of Jews in the precincts of the anti-semitic Left is dispelled.</p>
<p>Abetted by the 78% of the Jewish vote received by Mr. Obama, the political situation as it exists today, so clearly evident at the U.N., must be viewed with the utmost gravity. Indeed, It appears that the Jewish people are again on the precipice of catastrophe.<br />.<br />Again, I refer to Exodus, 32:34 &#8220;Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bellerophon</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Bellerophon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-231</guid>
		<description>It seems strange that while bible stories are credited with making fundamentalist children pro-semitic, there are no bible based reasons named for Jews to be liberal.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Modern liberalism isn&#039;t classical liberalism which few Jews ever supported. It is progressivism lite which is, in essential terms, a form of collectivism. All collectivisms subordinate the individual to the group. Whether that group is the proletariat or the race or the community at large in not important except in understanding how the various collectivisms are distinguished from each other.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Biblical Judaism is avidly collectivist. What is emphasized is that after loyalty to god comes loyalty to the tribe. Biblical wars are tribal slaughters. The Amalekites and the Midianites are exterminated in genocidal wars waged by Jewish tribes at the behest of Yahweh. There is no identity save tribal membership. Circumcision is the tribal mark of Jewish men. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Faithfulness to God was expressed by abject servitude to tribal chieftains. To be true to the tribe was to be true to God. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Even when many Jews abandoned belief in a god that intervened in human affairs, their loyalty to the group remained and still does remain. Subservience to the tribe is still the law of God even when belief in Him has waned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems strange that while bible stories are credited with making fundamentalist children pro-semitic, there are no bible based reasons named for Jews to be liberal.</p>
<p>Modern liberalism isn&#39;t classical liberalism which few Jews ever supported. It is progressivism lite which is, in essential terms, a form of collectivism. All collectivisms subordinate the individual to the group. Whether that group is the proletariat or the race or the community at large in not important except in understanding how the various collectivisms are distinguished from each other.</p>
<p>Biblical Judaism is avidly collectivist. What is emphasized is that after loyalty to god comes loyalty to the tribe. Biblical wars are tribal slaughters. The Amalekites and the Midianites are exterminated in genocidal wars waged by Jewish tribes at the behest of Yahweh. There is no identity save tribal membership. Circumcision is the tribal mark of Jewish men. </p>
<p>Faithfulness to God was expressed by abject servitude to tribal chieftains. To be true to the tribe was to be true to God. </p>
<p>Even when many Jews abandoned belief in a god that intervened in human affairs, their loyalty to the group remained and still does remain. Subservience to the tribe is still the law of God even when belief in Him has waned.</p>
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		<title>By: brenanc</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>brenanc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Damn good question thult.  I&#039;m guessing it might have something to do with their &quot;new and improved&quot; web page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn good question thult.  I&#39;m guessing it might have something to do with their &#8220;new and improved&#8221; web page.</p>
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		<title>By: thult</title>
		<link>http://frontpagemag.com/2009/09/25/title/comment-page-1/#comment-222</link>
		<dc:creator>thult</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://204.232.167.218/?p=21351#comment-222</guid>
		<description>Why is FrontPageMag deleting or otherwise censoring the previously posted comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is FrontPageMag deleting or otherwise censoring the previously posted comments?</p>
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