Comments on: Degrees in Dishonesty – by Walter Williams

By: dander

dander — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:07:47 +0000

Bwa ha ha ha ha, Brazil-nut, ha ha ha ha.

Love it.

By: William A. Sumruld

William A. Sumruld — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:42:27 +0000

As a history prof. at a small private college, I have to say that William's has a point. The other factor which must also be considered is that the dumbing down has already taken place even before students reach a prof, like me, who really wants them to learn. If I hold too firmly to standards, too many students flunk out too soon. If I let standards slide, there is not much real learning going on. In the trenches I find myself perpetually trying to balance these two things. How can I remediate students who learned so little in primary and secondary education and give them at least the facsimile of a true college level experience? That is my struggle day in and day out. Those who want to use education for non-educational purposes have practically destroyed it at almost every level.

By: occamsrazor7

occamsrazor7 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:51:59 +0000

While at law school, even though the fail/drop out rate was minimal, my first year was in line with yours, i.e. not many "A" s and a lot of "C"s, but few if any "D"s or "F"s. All students took the same courses in first year. The mentality of the administration and students was, in my opinion, they survived first year so even if they received "C"s the rest of the way they were only concerned with passing the bar, because they graduated from an ABA accredited law school. When their legal knowledge base was spotty.

In law school I saw professors "imposing" their views on what students did. In Advanced Legal Research the professor flat out stated that she did not like corporate nor business law and recommended students not research those topics for the class.

Students were no better. They would sit around reading the latest legal reports on how much money lawyers were making, illustrating, in my opinion why they went to law school. Liberal arts degree=no job or low pay; law degree=lots of money.

Not to get sidetracked, but, in my opinion, we have too many law schools, over 180 last I heard. Even if all law schools were rigorous and had a 30% failure/drop out rate, we are still graduating too many, thus turning a JD into a commodity.

In closing, I found my MBA program more challenging. If you got two "C"s or one "D" you were dropped from the program, no gentleman's "C"s to coast through the program.

By: mikidiki

mikidiki — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:55:31 +0000

You are to be congratulated upon your realistic attitude and we all trust that there will be jobs available to you upon graduation.

By: coyote3

coyote3 — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:52:59 +0000

I don't know when this happened, and I won't argue with you, you were there.

However, law schools are one place, that from my personal experience, engaged, if anything, in grade deflation. The law school where I graduated, had a reputation for letting “anyone” in. Actually, some of the people probably had no business in law school, but that is a different issue. The story was, and in seemed true, they would gladly take the first semester's tuition, fees, etc., of the people who had no business there, and then gladly flunk them out. We ran about a 50% failure rate the first semester. Even for those of us who “made” it, an acceptable grade was a “C”, a “B” was fantastic, and there “might” be 1 or 2 “A”s out of a class of 75-100. In many cases there would be no “A”'s. After the first semester the flunk out rate decreased, but never below 30% even in the senior year. The treatment was like boot camp/basic training. The only thing that was missing was the physical abuse.

By: wandertheworld

wandertheworld — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:01:13 +0000

As a current college student from a prestigious business school, I cannot agree more with this article. Although our honors program is limited to the top 10-15% of students ( which is more selective than the university-wide honors program ), grade inflation is rampant. Our curve is set at an A-, and professors openly discuss and joke about this fact. I can say that for me, eduction has been merely a tool to get a decent job upon graduation, the real learning is not taking place at universities. I think that it's despicable. What happened to higher learning?? I read the writings of classic authors and mourn the loss of free thought.

By: aspacia

aspacia — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:46:39 +0000

Donna,

I did not read word one regarding race in this article. This is typical race baiting of a myopic liberal. You do not have any credibility.

A Deist, Feminist, Goy, Zionist

By: aspacia

aspacia — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:41:41 +0000

LOL, with the low ability of the high school graduates entering universities, no wonder! Self-esteem to the extreme. Don't you know that it is never the student's fault when failing, only the teacher's.

English Instructor

By: antioli

antioli — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:25:24 +0000

Seems like the Universities have found a way to sop up student loan money and get rich.
They students may find it a little hard to pay back the loans. Suckers

By: kpalmer

kpalmer — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:19:10 +0000

failing grades are a must in any educational environment. I go to a small school and will graduate in a class of 25 students this year. No one in my class will graduate with a 4.0 and only five will graduate without a failing grade on their transcripts. The teachers set standerds that have to be met and I feel much better about my un-traditional education than I would have with a traditional education. I am afraid, however of falling in to the trap of grades next year when I go to college. I would rather my teacher gave me a bad grade when I didn't understand a class than pass onto a higher lever class where I will be even more lost.

By: astro254336

astro254336 — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:41:36 +0000

Dr. Williams,

Thank you for your comments and for the referral to other sources.

I once read Mortimer J Adler, former general editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica, write that the educational system produces the society, but also that the society produces the educational system. I'm sure that he was not claiming that these two, educational system and society, were the only players in this interaction of cause and effect, but that he was pointing out that an analysis is incorrect if we let society off the hook as if it were no more than passive putty molded by the active force, the school system.

I will mention a couple well-known examples where society is the active agent and the system the accommodating putty.

Parents want their children to be given high grades and powerful parents will sue the educational system to assure those grades. Since the schools want to be popular with parents for political reasons and since the schools have little or no "fat" in the budget for lawsuits, grades acceptable to society are granted.

In order to survive, universities along with their administration and faculties need lots of students. Since students and their parents want good grades, the universities, in order to prevent their demise, must have a reputation for giving high grades.

After a more complete picture of the situation comes into view, it seems that the request that schools and universities practice honesty in grading is an recommendation of mass suicide for virtues that the society does not actually honor.

The problem is not them alone. The problem is them and us.

By: coyote3

coyote3 — Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:28:56 +0000

Maybe it's offensive because it has some truth. I don't know about the “normal” white students, but seems to me if we are going to talk about preferences, let's have them all the way around and see what happens. What makes Negroes so special that they need different treatment. Seems like it is racist to them. They can't succeed unless they are “helped.” And yes, I am a minority, and I don't want the “help”. The last time they tried to “help” it cost me money.