Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Konstantin Preobrazhenskiy, a former KGB agent who became one of the KGB’s harshest critics. He is the author of seven books about the KGB and Japan. His new book is KGB/FSB’s New Trojan Horse: Americans of Russian Descent.
FP: Konstantin Preobrazhenskiy, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
I would like to talk to you today about the Russian spy ring, consisting of ten Americans, that has recently been busted by the FBI. This very much confirms your warnings to Frontpage readers in our interview a year ago about Putin’s spies in America.
The arrests confirm that Russia is indeed engaged in efforts to place agents in American society. These particular spies, it appears, were assigned to nurture ties in U.S. policymaking circles, to try to influence policy and to deliver intelligence back to Moscow on various issues (i.e. economic, U.S. government players, diplomatic and military affairs, etc.).
Mr. Preobrazhenskiy, what comes to you mind as you observe this development?
Preobrazhenskiy: Thanks Jamie.
I have to say that this case is very unusual. The informational task of the spies was very simple: to get a type of political information that is actually not so secret. Moscow did not need to send so many illegal spies here for it. The SVR station at any Russian embassy could easily do it too. Moscow has paid a lot of money to these people and it got nothing. Maybe it was just a way to milk Moscow as SVR (Russian Foreign Intelligence) is very rich nowadays, I don’t know.
But now, let’s make no mistake about it: the events of 9/11 opened up a gigantic highway for Russian intelligence activities in the USA. Both countries had proclaimed themselves as allies in fighting so-called “international terrorism,” though in fact this joint fight has never taken place. The very “international terrorism” that Russia pretended (and is pretending) to fight was invented in Russia by the KGB during the Soviet period.
Despite this harsh reality, the USA gave the SVR a green light in the United States.
The absurdity of the whole situation is that Russian intelligence did not even conceal itself. Its officers, pathetically pretending they were journalists, simply openly approached people during press-conferences and asked direct questions that only intelligence gatherers would be interested in. I was doing exactly the same in the 1980s in Tokyo, but we, Soviet Intelligence officers, were shyer. We were afraid to provoke spy scandals.
The U.S. has even tolerated the mammoth SVR operation of merging the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia with the Moscow Patriarchate. Sober-minded Americans, of course, understood that Russia did this to introduce its own influence and spy activities into America. There was also one more reason: money laundering.
The Church is a giant off-shore zone. Moscow can launder millions of dollars into this country using the Church. But formally, America has praised the seizure.
And now, low and behold, the U.S. has arrested some Russian spies for doing exactly the same thing as has been happening with the Church. Where is the logic?
FP: So what is happening then in your view in terms of Russian spying here?
Preobrazhenskiy: What’s happening in this whole sad charade is that the Russians know that Americans are more or less aware of their spy activities here, but that they (the Americans) are refraining from doing anything about it because of political correctness.
But now the FBI has suddenly acted. The Russians, therefore, are very offended. In their view, they are thinking: so you have allowed a “unification of churches” and allowed our penetration of your society, our money laundry and all kinds of our other espionage, and now today you are prohibiting us from it? This is unfair!
The Russians might especially be angry because by the arrests the Americans have injured Russia’s most important interests: financial ones. Taking some information from the White House is not as important in comparison.
Russia will not swallow this of course. The West has swallowed the strange and tragic catastrophe of the Polish President’s plane crash in Russia. Russia, however, is much more sophisticated in the game of revenge.
In 2005, a group of Russian teenagers, the sons of the Russian diplomats, were severely beaten in Warsaw. I have a feeling they were children of intelligence officers. Moscow took this accident very seriously, and the beatings of Polish diplomats began in Moscow. While in the Soviet period this accident would surely have been tolerated not to spoil relations with Poland or any other country, that is not the case today. In Russia today, the morale of the criminal world is very much respected. Its main principle is not to forgive anything.
That is why their revenge will be fierce.
FP: Narrow in a bit for us on what the Russians were up to in terms of these particular arrests.
Preobrazhenskiy: Well Jamie, as I mentioned earlier, it all looks very strange. There is a clear contradiction between the loudness of scandal and the shyness of the tasks of the alleged Russian spies. Their goals are described as following: “To search and develop ties in policymaking circles in US.” Intercepted messages showed they were asked to learn about a broad swath of topics including nuclear weapons, U.S. arms control positions, Iran, White House rumors, CIA leadership turnover, the last presidential election, the Congress and political parties.”
But this information is not so secret. It has been covered by the media to a great extent. It was not necessary at all to send illegal spies to America to obtain it. This information has been ordered to the “PR” (political intelligence) line of the SVR. The “PR” work is considered the easiest in Russian intelligence. The “PR” officers, usually covered as diplomat and journalists, are picking up this information using their secret agents, opened contacts and even newspapers.
"These particular spies, it appears, were assigned to nurture ties in U.S. policymaking circles, to try to influence policy and to deliver intelligence back to OIC(Organisation of Islamic Conference) on various issues (i.e. economic, U.S. government players, diplomatic and military affairs, etc.)." would also be bang on target.
As noted in a previous post read Tennent Bagley's Spy Wars, Anatoliy Golitsyn's The Perestroika Deception, Lawrence Kohn's Moscow's Continuing Role in Central Asia in Midstream magazine June/July 1993 quoting Andrei Kosyrev at that time the alleged liberal Russian foreign minister: " We are talking about…a principled choice for Russia's course and consequently…for the course to be pursued by other states…not only of the former Soviet Union, but also of the whole so-called Socialist camp…because of the reality…that the Russian Federation has sbeen at the center of that configuration and is today economically, culturally and in many other senses certainly the locomotive which by the direction and speed of its movement determines the direction and speed of movement of other states." Also see Lawrence Kohn's article in Midstream November 1995 "Russia's Iranian Wedge" where Boris Yeltsin is quoted from his resignation speech at the July 1990 Communist Party conference: "A change over to a multiparty system is inevitable…at the same time a fundamental renewal of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union is inevitable." From "Russia's Turkish Target" in the April 1996 issue of Midstream Primakov is quoted "apart from the three Baltic republics, the other 12 former republics which belonged to the Soviet Union would largely reunite." From the November/December 1998 issue of Midstream in "A Middle East Nuclear Free Zone?" Primakov is quoted as noting Moscow's policy since the 26th Communist Party Congress: "The banner of Islam may lead into the struggle for liberation." Finally, J. Michael Waller's book, Secret Empire, notes that on December 20, 1992 Primakov's new Russian intelligence service (he had been the last Soviet KGB head of foreign intell directorate) "celebrated not its first anniversary but its 72nd, marking the founding of the CHEKA's foreign intelligence arm on the same date in 1920." In sum, quoting from Lawrence Kohn's Midstream article Feb/March 1998 "Primakov-A Key Player": "The most significant and deeply underreported geopolitical fact of the 'post-Cold War' era is the continuity between the Soviet Union and Russia/Commonwealth of Independent States, which remains under the control of the 'former' Communist party elite and the renamed KGB"
A must read is Felshtinsky's, "The Corporation", brings forth the truths of Putin's reign and the team of FSB agents that serve him loyally. This book illustrates Putin as representing a completely new phenomenon, never before encountered by mankind. Suspected of numerous murders throughout his life, including Alexander Litvinenko and Anna Politkovskaya, Vladimir Putin has continually kept himself untouched by authorities. And even now as he leaves office, his strong hold on Russia continues as the real leader in the Prime Minister's seat.
What is your sense of the level of collusion between the FSB and elements of the American Left. In the old days there were indirect ties between the KGB and the SDS for instance, coordinating strategies aimed at fomenting revolution in the US. Does the FSB still pursue this kind of cultural subversion within the US? Or is the radical Left in the US on its own so to speak. Does Putin's regime see Obama as an ideolgical ally, or as an opportunity to make gains at the expense of Russia's old ideological foe? I am wondering how closely tied Russia is to Obama's vision of a State-Capitalist superstructure sitting atop an ideologically collective world.
The reunification of ROCOR with the Mother Church in Moscow was supported by not only the vast majority of ROCOR's laity and clergy, but by the vast majority of the faithful of the entire Eastern Orthodox Church. The leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church you are villifying have led the charge in opposing abortion, reintoducing Christian education to the schools and otherwise promoting issues and ideas that any conservative in America supposedly would support.
While Russia obviously has spies in the US, does anyone honestly believe that we (and every other nation on Earth) are not doing the exact same thing? One of the strangest things I have ever seen is the bizarre determination of so-called conservatives in America to turn an increasingly devout Christian nation, with the same real threats as our own (namely China and Islam), into an enemy.
"The leaders of the Russian Orthodox Church you are villifying have led the charge in opposing abortion, reintoducing Christian education to the schools and otherwise promoting issues and ideas that any conservative in America supposedly would support."
These same Christians voted overwhelming in favor for a man who nationalized large portions of the Russian economy. A man who seems to oppose the fundamentals of free speech, a man opposed to gun rights and even private property. Oh and lets not forget the fact the the Orthodox church is leading the charge in Russia of spreading anti-western propaganda.
"While Russia obviously has spies in the US, does anyone honestly believe that we (and every other nation on Earth) are not doing the exact same thing? "
Brilliant point! The problem with your argument is that if Russia caught 11 CIA agents operating in Russia I really doubt the Russian media would simply say: "well, we're spying on them so its ok". As a matter of fact when any "American spy" has been captured in the past Russian nationalists spat out the same old diatribe of western conspirators blah blah blah.
"One of the strangest things I have ever seen is the bizarre determination of so-called conservatives in America to turn an increasingly devout Christian nation, with the same real threats as our own (namely China and Islam), into an enemy."
Since when has China become a threat to Russia? If this is true then why does Russia continue such a close relationship with the Chinese? Whats even more bizarre is how you paleo-conservatives are trying to suggest that Russians share conservative values. Pick up a book on basic Russian history.
Hi Michael,
Thank you very much for responding. I think we would agree that Putin has certainly made mistakes regarding privatization. However, I also think that it's important to note that the "reforms" undertaken by Yeltsin were an unmitigated disaster. Well connected individuals like Khordokovsky bought up multiple state enterprises for next to nothing and proceeded to sell them off piecemeal with the result that thousands of people lost their jobs while the so-called oligarchs lived like kings. I realize the he's considered a martyr here in the States, but the average Russian would sooner see him dead than in prison.
However, the disastrous fall in oil prices seems to have made it clear to Russia's government that modernization (and privatization) are necessary for the country to move forward. Let's give Putin credit though, for instituting a flat tax and bringing his nation back from the brink of total collapse. That is the reality, and it's one well recognized within Russia.
I really must confess that I fail to see the "anti-Western" propoganda you claim is being pushed by Patriarch Kirill. You see, the last time I looked Kirill was working overtime to form an alliance with Pope Benedict to fight secularism, liberalism and Islam throughout Europe. In fact, if you take five minutes to peruse Roman Catholic sites (I would recommend Sandro Magister to start) you'll quickly discover that this Patriarch is considered the most open to Western alliances in the history of the Russian Orthodox Church.
I enjoyed your point on the recent spy scandal. Please forgive me if it seemed as though I were implying that we shouldn't prosecute foreign spies. I was simply trying to make the point that even allied nations frequently spy on one another (take Israel for example).
As for China, if you had actually read a book concerning the China/Russian relationship you would be aware that the two countries frequently had firefights along their common border during the 20th century. Moscow's leadership is terrified by the reality that their eastern provinces are largely uninhabited and border vast hordes of land hungry, potential illegal immigrants from China.
Finally, concerning "basic" books on Russian history, rest assured that I've read them and in both English and Russian (which I studied in college). Furthermore, I am can assure you that I am not a paleo-conservative or a neo-conservative. I could best described as a Reactionary, utterly opposed to any and all forms of liberalism. If you take the time to peruse serious works of scholarship concerning Russia, Michael, you'll quickly discover that Imperial Russia was the "boogeyman" of generations of European liberals.
Thanks again for your reply, I always enjoy intelligent conversation and I look forward to continuing this discussion (and others) with you in the future. May God bless you and yours.
Sincerely,
Peter
Islam is NOT a threat, wake up! I
That tired old line could almost be considered to be a clever diversion of the energies of Americans from the real and multi-faceted threat: today's and tomorrow's Russia !
I think concerned conservatives should be listening carefully to what Mr. Preobrazhensky has to say in this well done interview.
He should be featured everywhere and questioned about many other angles as well, for he really knows what he's talking about. Unlike so many others who are given the prime time spotlight. Those bland commentators mislead the American people to be able to form accurate conclusions about the real truth of what are serious external problems for Americans.
About the so-called "reunification" of the Churches, one could argue that that was entirely forced operation guided by various outlets in Russia. Hardly the free will of "the vast majority of the clergy, etc."
The Council held to vote on this was stage-managed to produce that very result! There was no free vote. Clergy members were told in advance that they HAD to vote for whatever their bishops told them to. How fair a vote is that? And much else besides was quite suspicious about the supposed "joyous reunion".
On the contrary, I was told that "everyone" was against it but were too afraid to raise their voices for fear of censure, being kicked out, losing one's parish, one's friends, etc.
Clergymen were not told how to vote at the 4th All-Diaspora Council. I was a delegate there and attended every event. I heard all the background talk and whispers, and no one was instructed by anyone to vote in any way.
Unfortunately, many people today, including Orthodox Christians, think that it is public opinion that performs God's will, when in fact it is God Himself who does, through us. In this case, the utterly overwhelming sense in that assembly in San Francisco in 2006 was that something supernatural was taking place–almost everyone who was there would attest to that–and the approval of the Resolution on proceeding with the reconciliation was nothing less than an act of the Holy Spirit. According to Orthodox Christian teaching, an ecclesiastical council–a Sobor of Bishops or of bishops and laymen–is influenced by the Holy Spirit.
Glory to God for all things!
The clergy were forced to sign an oath beforehand that they would do whatever they were told.
Extraordinary ambiance present at the Council? Yeah, if you are a Russian nationalist waving flags for Putin's agenda on this and every subject.
How about those who felt the presence of demons there? Those delegates are the ones of course who have departed the ranks of ROCOR-MP…
Let's have some fairness, not this glossy coffee-table book version of the events leading up to the ill-fated "union".
All that Putin et al had to do was wave flags of Russian nationalist spirit to get most of the Russian-descended flock to capitulate out of a misplaced, UNCRITICAL nostalgia for their homeland.
Mother Church? A Soviet-installed Patriarchate as Rocor's wicked stepmother – THAT sounds much more like it!
So George Soros met with the spies?
What about Vicky Pelaez, friend of Castros and Chavez. Who are her US friends, Oliver Stone and Mikey Moore?
Hi Catherine,
Thank you for responding. As an Orthodox Christian (not of the Russian jurisdiction incidentally) I can assure you that Orthodoxy is defined by frequent and loud squabbling between the muiltiple jurisdictions of our common faith. The founders of ROCOR always maintained that the split was temporary and based on the atheist regime in Russia, and the following quote is illustrative of the general attitude, "The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is an indissoluble part of the Russian Orthodox Church, and for the time until the extermination in Russia of the atheist government, is self-governing on conciliar principles in accordance with the resolution of the Patriarch, the Most Holy Synod, and the Highest Church Council [Sobor] of the Russian Church dated 7/20 November, 1920, No. 362."
Thank you for your polite sounding reply.
There was NO RUSH to reunite. What was so sinister was how the phalanx of Rocor Bishops, priests and lay propagandists were rigorously bent on forcing the union so quickly that no one had time to think. One can be sure they were well funded and advised by the very parties in Russia who hoped to gain.
Had they allowed free and open discussion over this painful topic, which after all, had divided the "White Church" from the "Red Church" for many decades and required more than a mere two years or so, one might think it was a more usual normalization of relations after much hostility.
But ROCOR priests on the MP bandwagon policed the internet to suppress dissent.
Metropolitan Philaret had warned his ROCOR that there should not EVEN be SOCIAL contact with the Moscow Patriarchate, which had alwaysbeen used as a front for KGB operatives dealing with the West.
Watching and waiting would have been prudent. Not this headlong embrace by Rocor of rather suspicious parties – with nothing more justification than muttered platitudes about brotherly love
I know for a fact that there was no "funding" of ROCOR from Moscow. Then or now. Period. All the expenses for everything having to do with the process of reconciliation came from ROCOR's side. We gained no material benefit, but an enormous spiritual one, which all Orthodox Christians should rejoice over.
Preobrazhensky's hypotheses stem from speculation. He has no inside knowledge supporting his claims about the Church.
Then ROCOR got even a WORSE deal out of this, then!
But, are you meaning to tell us that the extensive itinerary around Russia on what one priest who participated told was Putin's private plane for the 2004 larger delegation of ROCOR clergy was paid for by donations at the door of the plane?!
What about all the perks, seen and unseen, doled out to various parties.
At least one priest was a BIshop for tireless campaigning for the MP, The entire ROCOR establishment endeavored to painting today's Russian regime as "someone we can do business with" – in Margaret Thatcher's – to me naive – pronouncement after meeting President Gorbachev.
There were many rewards for those who jumped onto the ship readily.
Those who were brave enough to hold off were heaped with ridicule, and the church properties were attempted to be wrested away. Where did the money come from for those terribly high legal expenses for ROCOR-MP's attornies and court costs? The MP never chipped in? That's hard to believe.
What divided the "Red" and "White" Churches over the decades fell to the wayside with the glorification of the Holy New Martyrs and Confessors of Russia by the Church in Russia and the "Basic Social Concept" adopted by the Moscow Council in 2000 (fascinating read–it is on their website, in English, too).
If one could use the word "capitulation" to characterize any aspect of what happened, it is that the Moscow Patriarchate came to embrace, and in fact declare to the world, the truths ROCOR has been championing since 1927.
Furthermore, the idea that Islam is not a threat seems to be strongly contradicted by the more than 3,000 Americans who died on Spetember 11th and by the Jihadi attacks on our interests around the world. Russia, on the other hand, is a nation that is in an overstated, but real, demographic decline. Concerned with long, difficult to defend, borders with multiple hostile nations, Russia is a country that can and should be seeking allies who share a similar faith and culture.
" Concerned with long, difficult to defend, borders with multiple hostile nations, Russia is a country that can and should be seeking allies who share a similar faith and culture.'
Russia has attacked its periphery far more often than it has been attacked. One can equally say that Russia is hostile.
and despite its faith and culture its allies are mostly muslim/ atheist nations.
HEY EVERYONE RUSSIA IS NOT OUR FRIEND AND WILL NEVER SINCE THEY HAVE SIDED WITH IRAN TO ATTACK ISREAL.
Russia and Iran did not team up to attack Israel, let alone whatever "Isreal" is.
and yet Russia has been the leading arms supplier to iran and syria for the past 2 decades. Won't even mention its relationship to Nasser Egypt the PLO and PLFP.
The continuity of Soviet policy and Russian policy was demonstrated over a decade ago by defector Anatolyi Golitsyn in his book, The Perestroika Deception. In addition note the quotes below from articles written in Midstream by Lawrence Kohn in the following issues: June-July 1993, April 1996, Feb/March 2000-1. The alleged liberal Russian Foreign Minister Andrei Kozyrev speaking in December 1992: : "We are talking about…Russia's course and consequently…for the course to be pursued by other states…not only of the former Soviet Union but also of the whole…Socialist camp…because the Russian Federation has been at the center of that configuration and is today…certainly the locomotive which by the direction and speed of its movements determines the direction and speed of movement of other states." 2.Yevgeny Primakov in 1994: "apart from the three Baltic republics, the other 12 former republics would largely reunite." And Boris Yeltsin's resignation speech at the July 1990 Communist Party Congress whose prediction can be seen in Putin's Unity Party today: "Various political parties are gradually being formed in our country. At the same time, a fundamental renewal of the CPSU is inevitable. A parliamentary-type party will emerge. Only this type of party will be able to win election for one or another of its factions…it will become possible for this alliance to become the vanguard of society in actual fact."
"why is american government too anxious to shut down the case, return the spies to russia, and be done with it?"
Because an extensive interrogation, 'debriefing', followed by a public trial, would expose the key players in American Left—americans, most of them—as ideological and operational partners of Moscow's neo-communist regime. See Preobrazhinsky's comments about "cold war" … then look at what is happening around you. What is a better coup for the communists than having a marxist cabal grabbing power in DC? Why should there be no collaboration and co-operation among people sharing same collectivist/totalitarian ideology?
What good things has Putin done for Russia during the recent ten years? Every
time, when I hear people saying this, it surprises me how quickly people
can forget things. It seems that they have forgotten a lot about the
1990s. Do they remember the crisis of 1998, when the dollar skyrocketed from 6 to 20 rubles in less than one month? Do they remember the faces of those people who had considerable debts in dollars? Just for comparison, the
dollar rate changed just for a couple of rubles from January 2000 up
until now. If someone had promised during the 1990s that the ruble rate
would be practically still for ten years – no one would have ever
believed that person. Do they remember the mobsters who would race their
Mercedes cars in the wrong lane? Would anyone try to stop them back then
as they try to stop official vehicles now? Now one can make videos of
these races and upload them on the Internet. If someone tried to film
mobsters during the 1990s, they would either be injured or just killed.
Do they remember the morale which we had during the second half of the
1990s? Everyone would think that tomorrow would be much worse than
today. When Putin was saying that the national GDP would double,
everyone thought that he was just joking.Do they remember the grocery stores of the 1990s? They were not Soviet- like anymore, but they were not Western-like either. They were tiny, dirty and there was not much to choose from. Do they remember so-called shuttle traders who lived at the expense of the underdeveloped commercial system? Do they remember the total absence of consumer loans, credit cards, large supermarkets and many other types of consumer infrastructure? Do they remember the average salary of $100, which would make such things as buying new cars and booking holidays abroad a luxury? Do they remember the Russian style of business which was prospering during the 1990s? Commodity bases in dirty basements, big and bald-headed guys in tracksuits, illegal salaries in dollars – do they
remember?Do they remember that infamous jealousy to Europeans and
Americans, who had to work for just one month to afford a powerful
computer? Do they remember the Internet which which was ten times as
faster and ten times as cheaper in the West? A lot of things have changed in the country, people, really a lot.Russia today is a normal European country which is quite affordable for living. Of course, the country has too many problems, but it is not the impoverished Russia, in which the average pension was $20. It is not the country where the IMF can be the boss.
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