The administration’s subsequent attempts to back-pedal fell terribly flat. “I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there,” the president said on Saturday. “I was commenting very specifically on the rights people have that dates back to our founding. That’s what our country is about.” Odd – why bring up one specific mosque if you’re supposedly talking about freedom of worship in the general sense? If that was truly the president’s intent, he could have pointed to the fact that over 2,000 mosques, Islamic cultural centers and Islamic schools have been built in America already. That’s all the evidence that anyone should need to show “what our country is about.” If the president were proud of his country instead of embarrassed by it, he might have noted the contrast between the number of mosques in the United States and the lack of any synagogues or churches in Saudi Arabia. He could have challenged our erstwhile allies in Riyadh to demonstrate a little tolerance of their own. After all, what would be the more effective way of promoting peace, understanding and sensitivity between the Islamic world and the west: forcing a nation of virtually limitless, demonstrated religious tolerance to accept yet another mosque in the one place guaranteed to insult the majority of its citizens, or building – say – a “Jewish and Christian Center for Religious Understanding and Peaceful Co-Existence” in Riyadh, the capital city of the nation that is at the heart of “the religion of peace?”
While the location of the Ground Zero mosque is troubling enough, the likelihood that it will serve as a focal point for planning and executing jihadist attacks is even more worrisome. Of about two hundred mosques investigated by the Mapping Sharia in America Project, sponsored by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, three in four were found to support anti-western extremism. The Imam behind the Ground Zero mosque, Faisal Abdul Rauf, has refused to condemn Hamas – or even call it a terrorist organization – and he won’t answer questions about the Muslim Brotherhood either. Given the secretive and deceptive nature of jihad, Rauf is hardly the sort of Muslim to inspire trust. Yet, Barack Obama still bends over backwards to endorse Rauf’s project.
There are only two reasons that the president of the United States would go out of his way to single out the most controversial mosque ever proposed to be built in America as the recipient his official blessing: either Obama is naïve enough to believe that such soothing words can tame the savage beast lurking in the heart of Islam, or he secretly sympathizes with goals of the Islamists. Personally, I still believe the former is the case, but as this president continues to show that he is more concerned about pleasing our enemies than he is with offending Americans, the conspiracy theories will grow in strength and number, and Obama has only himself to blame. He is, in my book anyway, a fool, not a traitor, but the difference hardly matters, for the net effect is the same. Barack Obama has further emboldened the west’s enemies, letting them know in no uncertain terms that they enjoy the protection and empathy of the fellow who wields the power to check their dangerous ambitions.
T h e E x p l a n a t i o n …
No one should miss this video:
http://xrl.us/bf29mb
Look to the end ( 10 mi
POTUS does not have the right, when acting as POTUS, to broadcast his personal opinion. There is no time when his words are separable from his job, especially when the subject is permissive to foreign or domestic, invasive (i.e. Marxist, or Islamic) agendas.
Prayer rugs and prayer on the White Whore House lawn. A White Whore House party celebrating the anniversary of the Stonewall riots. Telling the Islamic world that America is not a Judeo-Christian Nation, but instead is the largest Muslim Nation on the planet. Tell the Nation to [get screwed] on the National Day of Prayer…. With BS-Barry, just like Al Frankin, it's all about moi, Barack mmm mmm mmm Obama.
If Obama wants to yak about his opinion(s) in public, he can become a former POTUS at any time and become another voter!
Congress, you are funding POTUS. De-fund it/him now, or your funding is making law regarding an establishment of religion. Obama is establishing a beach-head in the USA, for Islam and "Sharia Law". He is establishing HIS religous and political system on US soil, with US Taxpayer dollars. Congress you are party, by commission, or omission, to treasonous activities.
Very well said.
Why can't you be mad at reality. Why do you have to blow things out of proportion and make up things Obama said…some of you think that if you feel a certain way, it is your duty to support and amplify anything that helps…not necessarily what is true.
Obviously there are more to this than that comment. I am an ordained minister that does not believe in the Christian God, the Jewish Abraham, the Muslim Allah ….. yet the Constitution of the United States, the Internal Revenue Service and the 50 States accept my religion as a non profit, protected entity, subject to the rules and regulations of any other recognized religion.
Perhaps the exception here is that I can't molest young children like the Catholics and other famous Evangelists, for me and others like me would be jailed and left to the law of other prisoners.
How loud the howl of Americans if the Mosque at Ground Zero, which really is only in view of Ground Zero, were a Christian church? And why would it matter? The Twin Towers were occupied by all religions, and some who were atheists.
What if the new building was a House of Wicca? Would it bring the same brew-ha-ha? I am sorry that people have so little else to do that they make time for this foolishness – Don't you think that Homeland Security wouldn't allow such a thing …with all their mumbo jumbo under the Patriot Act.
As for my opening introduction, I am a Wiccan, and to help get you going on your next tirade We have no single God, do not consider Jesus Christ as our saviour, nor do we believe in Satan, heaven or hell. We believe in the traditions of our ancestors, we respect our planet, and do not cast evil spells. We don't ask our Gods and Goddess to smite our enemies, we do not believe in vengeance, but we are allowed to protect ourselves. – and before the name calling begins, I am a combat wounded Army Medic, having my Med-Evac helicopter shot down. So please don't say I'm not a real American, I gave my body for this country, and I am reminded of it daily when I have to make sure I can go into a store with my wheelchair – Many I can't. So you see, there are other things in America to fret over.
Chuck Norris: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37507
For the author "Obama is, a fool, not a traitor", yet in my view Obama is simply a puppet: an illegitimate puppet, whose enablers were the former president, the Congress, the Supreme court, both parties and the entire stupid electorate knowing no difference between "native born" and "natural born": http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm
Now America will wake up. This grotesque mosque hopefully will trigger a real popular war on Islam in America. Use every piece of land opposite to every mosque for permanent display of anti-Islamic posters: Mohammed cartoons, pig's head, whichever. Print address labels "Rid of Islam" with the Mohammed cartoon and glue it on every letter you send. In every church, in every synagogue arrange a campaign that Islam does not belong to America. America is a Judeo-Christian nation. Moslems wishing to remain faithful to Islam have no business here. Islam is at war against us whether we wish it or not: http://www.resonoelusono.com/Imminent.htm
Rise up America until it is not too late!
If Obama is not an American citizen, then he may not be guilty of treason, but then, what would his actions be called.
Obama, as Supreme Leader[!] has gone before the Islamic 'world' and proclaimed America to be the largest Muslim Nation in the world. By doing so, from his position (in the minds of Islamism) is a proclamation of the USA having already been conquered and they know that under Sharia Law, We the People must submit – to refuse means we must be forced to submit.
Obama is a foreign invader, sitting in the Offal Office.
Very well said!!!
Obama is a muslim and he acts like one. His interest is to change the US to a puppet of Islam. Islam is NOT a RELIGION, it is a RACIST IDEOLOGY, very similar to Hitler´s.
And I agree, Obama is a foreign INVADER . Was he really elected by the majority of the Americans? What about his many social security numbers? He could ote for himslef many times and what about ACORN? They used forged IDs so that one person could be elected many times?
Why has Obama given citizenshio to 1600 Hamas members in January 2009? it was his FIRST ACT as a president and all the evidence "disappeared" one month later.
These persons are located in South California under assumed names.
Mary
Mary, YES Obama was really elected by the majority of the Americans. We have a problem here. What is the saying? "We've met the enemy and he is….." I know otherwise intelligent people who voted for this dangerous man. People can make really foolish judgments, especially when things (like the economy) go south. Look at Germany. Germans helped bring the Nazi party to power in the early nineteen thirties when things were bad economically. Then after the war, most Germans were in denial saying they did not support Hitler when they did. My neighbors who voted for Obama are likewise in denial. I understand, people were angry at Bush and the Republicans. I was angry at Bush and the Republicans but no way was I so angry I would vote for this dangerous man.
Former President Bush said the following publicly about Islam: "Its (Islam's) teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah…" (APPLAUSE) ….."The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself……" No one on the Right challenged Bush when he propagated these and other lies about Islam for seven plus years (post 9/11) and yet the Right is properly outraged at the building of this supremacist mosque at Ground Zero. Yet we say it has nothing to do with religion. Why did so many on the right support Bush even as he lied about Islam?
"Obama is a foreign invader". This is the sort of crap which makes people feel nervous about the tea-party movement. Any evidence that his pregnant American mother would have taken the trouble to go all the way to Kenya just to give birth to him? And how many more rational people will simply ignore these foolish statements, hoping that they will stir up more anti-Obama and anti-immigration sentiment?
What a cult you got going here. Obama reminds you that we have freedom of religion and if you want to build a community center on public property that is your right…and somehow this is declaring America a Muslim Nation. There isn't even an attempt to get the argument right.
"Yet, Barack Obama still bends over backwards to endorse Rauf’s project." Boy that's some fair editorialing there. Obama couldn't have made a more dry, deliberate and clear statement. This is America….we don't tell people what they can build on private property. I love how the constitution is FPM's pride and joy only when they think it helps their cause. As soon as it doesn't…screw it…
The US Constitution "overall" is a decent document. It is not however my "pride and joy." One of America's insightful Framers, John Adams wrote: "It will never be pretended that any persons employed in the service [i.e., framing constitutions] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of heaven." Americans have learned the painful lesson, in times of war, First Amendment protections are not absolute. Seditious speech in time of war is not absolute. Never has been; never will be. Neither, I would argue, is a seditious religion. Islam is at war with the West. Shall we offer it our protection?
Islam is a religion. Like terror, it is incapable of waging war. Here in America, you can build whatever you want on your private property (within reason). Al Qaida was trying to ignite a holy war. Why would you want to do Osama's work for him?
Wait a minute. Nazism is an ideology. I agree with you, Islam is a religion because unlike Nazism and Communism Islam embraces a supernatural deity; a creator. Would you say, like Islam, Nazism (or Mein Kampf) is incapable of inciting violence, particularly against Jews and other 'subhumans'? During the second world war, would Americans have tolerated the dissemination of Nazi ideology here in the US? It's like you said, here in America you can build whatever you want on your private property, "Within Reason."
Now imagine if nazism were a religion of 1.2 billion adherents, I guess liberals in our country would offer them the same protections as Jews and Christians ! This is exactly what we are facing with islam. If we can't find any way to prevent and restrict the spread of islam into the United States, if the Courts continue to rule that islam is a constitutionally protected "religion", then we are left with no other logical choice but to amend the 1st Amendment.
Good point.
Oh for #^$()@ sake. We didn't go to "war" with Nazism, we went to war with Germany, Japan and the other Axis powers. When people talk of war in the realm of ideology they are forced to speak metaphorically and often do to influence the minds of people…because that is the realm of ideology.
And I included (within reason) to headoff ridiculous comparisons and "what if" senarios…that didn't work apparently…it takes two posts to get to Nazism.
Bravo, buddy.
Yes, we did George; you should go find some of those "Why We Fight" movies by Capra, it was most assuredly a fight against evil ideologies.
And please allow a question; if we weren't fighting Nazism and Japan's warrior cult, then tell me just what we did in those two countries after we won. We turned around and came home, right? No re-education, no outlawing of the militant philosophies, right? We defeated Germany, we defeated Japan, and nothing changed.
What is it that made those countries "Axis Powers" in the first place?
And tell us, what does "within reason" mean, concerning what limits our governments place on construction on private land? Saying your rationale for saying it is all well and good, but doesn't really mean anything. So what does it mean? Because saying it tells me that even you recognize that we do not have an absolute right to build anything we want anywhere, merely because a person holds title to a piece of land.
Al-Qaeda had committed mass murders throughout the world in the name of Islam. Although it is undeniable that moslems were often some of the victims it is also true that there was never a mass public outcry, in any form and shape among the moslems when the victims were all infidel, as opposed to hysterical protests due to a rumor circulated of an infidel drowning a quran in a toilet bowl or a Mohammad cartoon incident. Never! There is only one possible explanation to this, namely that muslims all over the world are largely supportive of the actions perpetrated by al-Qaeda members against peoples of non-islamic faiths.
Building a huge mosque in downtown Manhattan, near the site of a horrendous massacre perpetrated by muslims in the name of Islam is an abomination. Islam in its current form is a totalitarian cult and no symbol of it should be allowed to tower where a democratic and free-loving people lives, just like no Nazi temple would be permitted to be built anywhere in the United States or Europe nowadays. And I trust that no German "cultural" center will be erected near the site of Treblinka death camp.
~George~
I completely 100% agree with you. It's exactly what I heard the president say. But in here…forget it! Anyone who posts a thoughtful, non-ideological response in FPM is automatically gang-banged and receives a lot of "thumbs-down" votes. Intense Debate ought to revoke their support from this hypocritical non-debate blog. What debate?
This is one of the least censored sites on the entire web, pal, but that doesn't mean it should "strive for balance" as the MSM matrons like to put it. Since when does holding a minority view equate with a lack of debate? Go ahead – debate your head off!
I don't disagree with you on "holding minority views[s]" at all. I cut my teeth on Thoreau's "minority of one" ideas. What I object to is the lack of civility toward those commenters holding a minority view in FPM. And that's true at The Daily Kos and other leftie blogs too. People tend to get crazy over politics—with the same people they might otherwise sit next to at their kids' soccer games.
Calling the comm a cult, and then misquoting Obama;s speech (The mosque is not being built on public property) is not a thoughtful response; it merely demonstrates how poorly George actually thinks, or pays attention.
Another poster nailed it, Obama does not have the luxury of a personal opinion because he is the President; he is representing himself, but rather us, through the Constitution.
And he already practiced a very important task in our national religion, he swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That includes those people who are motivated by Islam, because its teachings demand the eradication of legal systems built on Western, liberal foundations.
The prez took an oath to 'protect and defend the Constitution of the United States'. What about that idea do you NOT get?
Ok, Lary9, you can get down off the high horse, or is it a hooby horse, right this very second. You haven't a clue to whom you're speaking and such pompous, pointless comments do nothing to further the dialogue you claim to hold so dear. And from what I've seen here before, you have no place trying to think me such an inferior dolt that you ought to speak to me thusly.
And perhaps, rather than just spouting empty phrases, you might try making a "thoughtful, non-ideological response", by telling me just how exactly it is that Obama's "personal" support of this mosque is defending the Constitution. His opinions on the 1st Amendment are irrelevant, he is to be executing the laws that Congress has given him.
There is little question in all this that a private entity has a legal, and moral, right, to build what it wishes on its own property. This issue is quite a bit more complicated, because of the politics, than that. This is the more important since it seems that the elected, and non-elected, officials in NY are bending the law, seeking every loophole possible, to enable this project, rather than obeying their bosses and trying to erect more obstacles.
The history of Islam is patently clear, this mosque is yet the latest war memorial to the fallen martyrs of Allah's jihad. It has positively nothing to do with America proving its religious tolerance to Muslims.
You're wrong about Obama personally supporting the construction of that mosque. He just simply is not. He said as much later.
Furthermore, I don't see how you can write that comment and, without feeling hypocritical, accuse me of being "pompous" and "on a high horse". Your comment was good but it sounded more like long-winded pontification than mine. All I have to say is…watch a video of his inauguration…the part where he swears an oath to 'defend and protect'. Then explain why his moderate position on the mosque issue is wrong.
~George~
Stick around. We may be able to save a few young ideologues-in-training from taking the 'FPM Pledge'… I like to come in here to listen, to monitor and respond. It keeps me sharp and I learn much about the way "cult you got going here" thinks or doesn't. [I'll take hits for this one.]
I've been reading FPM and commenting for many years. After 9/11 Horowitz and his entire operation has slowly gone to crazytown. In this case, you are asked to accept that "we" which I guess is the United States is already "at war" with "Islam". This is what Osama and co. are trying to do. Besides being bombed, these kooks need to be marginalized and their message ignored in favor of a better vision for the future of mankind.
So let me get this straight, Muslim militants killed nearly 3000 people, in 2001; not by far the first time such things have happened, and FPM has gone off the deep end in trying to "convince" people that we are at war with them?
And your solution is to bomb them, and ignore them…
But if we're not at war with them, why do think we should bomb them?
And just how well do you suppose they will respond to a "better vision", considering that the Declaration of Independence was written oh, about 1000 years after the Quran, and less than 100 years after Polish hussars broke the siege of Vienna, and they still don't but it?
Or do you have an even better idea?…
We dont tell people what they can build on private property?? Are you kidding? DO you own a house? Try cutting down a tree on your lawn or building another room,and tell me how easy that is to do!!!!
Where do you live? I would imagine those are local regulations and ordinances….not really what the President should be worrying about. If there is a local zoning problem with putting the community center there, then there is no issue.
The property where the Islamic monstrosity, this cult mount of worship is to be built was deliberately and provocatively chosen.
If Obama is encouraging Islam in America then he is either a cult follower himself or he knows the true political motives of political Islam. It is my belief the latter is true.
Islamic conquest has taken America.
The Second revolution is about to take place in America with deadly consequences.
Islam, with Barack Obama has awakened a giant from its deep slumber.
When the American people finally awaken and fully understand what Islam means to American freedoms they will not stand for this invasion.
Your are correct>
I WOULD LIKE TO BUILD A PORK SLAGHTER HOUSE IN MECCA IF THEY BUILD A GROUND ZERO MOSQUE
Might be a good way to protest as the mosque is being built– leave pig parts in the area– drop pieces of uncooked bacon along the sidewalk, ham, etc.
Imagine hundreds of new yorkers doing this!
Last I checked, the House of Saud is not our teacher. You would have us act as they do? To what end? Your own childish, self-centered peevishness? Your own personal sense of 'evening-up the score'? Take it to the playground. Let the adults handle this one.
NO NEWS HERE OBAMA IS THE MUSLIM IN CHIEF OF THE USA. I AM SURE THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY WILL HAVE HIM LAY THE CORNER STONE AND CUT THE RIBBEN AT THE OPENING. HAY BO ALA SALAMI BALOONIE TO YOU. GO BACK TO MECCA DUDE
Obama isn't misjudging anything. Obama is behaving like any tyrant behaves. We are going to have to resist with violence and even then I think it is too late to save the country. The barbarians have breached the gates.
Rich Trzupek wrote: "….either Obama is naïve enough to believe that such soothing words can tame the savage beast lurking in the heart of Islam, or he secretly sympathizes with goals of the Islamists (better: Islam)."
Mr. Trzupek believes the former. I believe the later. I fear most Americans, like Trzupek, believe the former. If this trend continues, I see little hope long-term for America.
There is hardly any muslim who would think that an world califate could
be acomplished by acts of war,like the islamitic armies did in the past.
No they found a much better way by ensuring thyat the Muslim population
will dominate that of the non Muslim. And I must admit they succeed mighty
well.Great parts of the united kingdom are Muslim dominant areas.
Other parts of Europe as wel.And then there is the free democratic nation
of America who will be the next fictim for her towering tolerance towards
Muslims.They even got a fifth colon in the white house,Mr Barack Hussein
Obama,I knew from the start that you loved Muslims more than you like
Jews.But not only that you are selling your fellow Americans to an Muslim
califat wich is already spreading like a cancerous disease trough the world.
Are your fellow democrats so addicted to power that they are blind for the
horror at our doorstep? and keep you in office? No mr Barack Hussein
Obama I don't like you very much.
The Editors of National Review online wrote the following this morning:
"….Indeed, no reasonable opponent of the project contests the right of Muslims to worship as they please in this country — the First Amendment religious rights of Muslims never have been in question, at all. The critics insist only that this particular location for a project led by these particular people — including an imam who cannot bring himself to condemn Hamas — is unseemly and ill-considered. That position in no way implies a disregard for the First Amendment……"
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243756/oba…
Isn't this an absurd statement? "No reasonable opponent of the project contests the right of Muslims to worship as they please in this country?" No reasonable opponent of the project contests the right of American imams to preach murderous hatred of Christians and Jews in this country? Upwards of 80% of American mosques are funded by Saudi petrodollars. This Salafi (Wahhabi) stream of Islam teaches intolerance and hatred toward non-Muslims. What is wrong with this picture?
With his White House Ramadan pronouncement regarding the Cordoba Center, Obama has finished removing his slimy mask for all Americans with any discernment or open eyes to see: we are living the nightmare of a Muslim mole operating with impunity from the Oval Office. He is the classic "enemy from within" which our forefathers took pains to prevent. What are we doing to prevent his complete transformation of our republic? Our collective anger only serves to stoke his community organizer fire; like the Alinsky hero, Lucifer, he mocks the sacred laws in the Constitution, he disregards the sensibilities of dissenters, and promotes discord among races and religions — all this damage comes to us from an unconstitutionally-elected plant courtesy of the human version of the rodent Pinky and the Brain "Take Over the World" crew. It behooves freedom-loving Americans to set out the mousetraps …
If indeed you are a Cuban Refugee then America became richer when you landed here. You hit the nail on the head. Obama lost his slimy mask when he revealed his true feelings.
What is a religion?
Is iSLAM a relgion?
Of course not. Islam, like the National Socialist flavor of socialism, is a totalitarian ideology dressed up as a religion.
Religion 1) belief in and worship of a god or gods, or in general a set of beliefs explaining the existence of and giving meaning to the universe, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs; 2) a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Obambi sides with illegals and the president of Mexico – against Arizona.
Obambi sides with the lslamic conquest – against the US.
Did l hear the author say Obambi isnt a traitor?
Lo and behold, 'Time' Magazine carries an article that pleads for Republicans not to politicize Obama's support for the GZM. The gist of it is that by doing so, only the extremists will benefit.
It's the same old refrain from the Cold War, folks. Liberals used to insist that if America challenged Soviet expansionism, we would only succeed in strengthening the position of hawks within the Kremlin.
The exact opposite was true. When we met Soviet challenges with passivity, as the Democrats did in Angola (Clark amendment, '75), Ethiopia ('77), South Yemen (78), Cambodia and Afghanistan ('79), one Soviet success led to another, the arguments of Soviet hawks were validated (that aggression was painless), and the Kremlin's appetite for foreign adventure only grew.
When we met Soviet challenges with concerted action, as Reagan did through support of counter-insurgencies in Angola, Afghanistan, Kampuchea, and Nicaragua, the costs to the Kremlin became prohibitive and the intervention paradigm was abandoned.
Think about it folks, in the six years between the fall of Saigon in '75 and Reagan's inauguration in Jan. '81, the Soviets intervened – directly or by proxy, in six countries. For the eight years of the Reagan presidency that followed, there were NO new Soviet interventions.
Islam may not be the Kremlin, but if history has taught us anything, it is that appeasement only wets the appetite of the aggressor. A determined response to the Islamic challenge – and the GZM is just the most prominent battleground of many in this war – is the one and only way to deter Muslims and discredit jihad in the Muslim collective psyche.
Through concerted action – political, military, ideological – we can make the costs of Jihad prohibitive…so much so that Muslims themselves – in the enlightened pursuit of their own self-interests – turn against the Jihadis. But don't expect the liberal editors of 'Time' to understand this.
There was nothing wrong with the first part of Obama’s statement: “As a citizen and as President, I believe that Muslims have the right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country.” You would have to search far and wide to find Americans who would disagree with that sentiment.
Actually, Richard you don’t have to search far and wide to find Americans who disagree with that sentiment because Islam far from being just a religion is also a very radical form of totalitarianism that seeks world domination as its main goal. Indeed, Sharia institutionalizes the systematic oppression of females and non-Muslims and incorporates draconian punishments like stonings, beheadings, and amputations, while there is no freedom of religion, no freedom of speech, no freedom of conscience, and apostates from Islam are executed. Hence, it couldn’t be clearer Islam is not a religion alone, but instead a totalitarian theo-political ideology that seeks to subjugate the world via the imposition of Sharia as its main goal, and it is not protected by the first amendment of the constitution, as the constitution, Richard, is not a suicide pact. Hence, this means that not only should the Ground Zero Mega Mosque be stopped from being built, but also all mosques and madrassas should be stopped from being built and if already built then shut down and closed.
Any attempt to turn this issue from one involving propriety and provocation into a debate about freedom of religion in America is transparently ludicrous.
Actually, those leading the charge to stop the mosque should welcome that challenge and debate because when you take Islam in totality for what it really is, a totalitarian theo-political ideology that seeks to subjugate all unbelievers via the imposition of Sharia as its main goal, then it is obvious that Islam isn’t protected under the religious freedom clause of the constitution.
There is nothing about this controversy that involves freedom of religion. Muslims can and do build mosques in all corners of the United States.
Which is a testament to how ignorant Americans really are with respect to what Islam really is thanks to our politicians and to pundits exactly like you, Richard, who constantly propagate the falsehood that Islam is a faith-based religion like any other, when the reality is Islam is not even a faith-based religion, but instead a religion of submission that forbids the freedom of conscience under the pain of death, in stark contrast to faith-based religions.
You wrote: "…it couldn’t be clearer Islam is not a religion alone, but instead a totalitarian theo-political ideology that seeks to subjugate the world via the imposition of Sharia as its main goal, and it is not protected by the first amendment of the constitution, as the constitution, Richard, is not a suicide pact…."
While I concur with what you've written above, it seems clear to me, most Americans believe Islam is protected by the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment. That is why this discussion is so important. The point is America's Founders were not prophets. Had they studied the history, the texts and the teachings of Islam – as they did Europe's history; had they the prescience to know a day would come when resurgent Islam is at war with America, would they have crafted this Amendment as they did? Can we allow the free exercise of a religion even as it wars against our citizens?
Can we allow the free exercise of a religion even as it wars against our citizens?
Go back and study the history of Utah and the Mormon religion, it was not until the Mormons ended the practice of polygamy was Utah allowed to become a state. Hence, there is already legal precedence that not all religious practices are protected by the constitution.
Good point. Then why is Islam a protected religion? Why aren't Americans questioning Islam's protection under the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment? Can you name one prominent elected official or scholar who questions Islam's protection by the Constitution? Is Robert Spencer questioning Islam's protection? How about D. Horowitz? What about Newt Gingrich or Sarah Palin? Everyone on the Right is saying this is not a religious or a Constitutional issue when in fact it is a religious and a Constitutional issue. Leftist are correct to point out the hypocrisy on the part of conservatives and "strict constructionists" who like to invoke the Constitution. We cannot have it both ways.
Dhimmitude.
Back to your point about Mormonism and polygamy. While polygamy is repugnant, as is chattel slavery, these practices did not pose an existential threat to the US; unlike Islam. For Islam to cease being a direct threat to the the US and the West, it would have to cease being Islam. Unlike Christianity and Judaism, how can Islam adapt to "classical liberal" Western values?
In America Muslims expect to have THAT right to not only practice Islam, but to them Muslims believe that Peace will only happen when ALL peoples submit to Allah. Yet in many Muslim countries Christians are being burned alive, tortured, and beheaded for not submitting th Islam's forced dogmas. Churches are forbidden to be built and Any church that speaks well of ISRAEL, is attacked. It is a spiritual drive to overcome the world and every woman will wear the hijab, Mohammad knew what he was doing when he said, ''A CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN'' WHY should he care what we believe? How soon we forgot what we vowed to never forget. Islam is a Trojan horse filled with boa constrictors. Get rid of Obama.
Excuse me, Obama knew what he was doing with his slogan,
There was no misjudgement by Obama. This was he wanted to say to his Muslim audience that he is with them and this was a message to other Muslim countries that he is looking after Muslim interests in USA. Next day he starts lying about what he meant as if Americans are buying that(at least I hope they don't). Next election should show how much the American public has seen through the lies of big zero and company!!!
Folks, we have a serious problem where the top 3 of our government (incl Pelosi) conspired to deceive us by falsifying his credentials, and this collusion is now polluting our Supreme Court as the lawyer who knew of this illegal behavior was rewarded with the Chicago gift of the life term on the Supreme Court. We have 3 branches that are rotten because we allowed the Kenyan to walk upright in our presence after he lied to us. He should be impeached and jailed as should the other 3 dishonest traitors to our Constitution.
Oh. You're a birther. See ya.
[I gotta go...I'm due back on earth.]
A neat counter argument – when the lslamic majority countries stop persecuting Christians and other non Muslims we will allow them to build mosques here, but not until then. We in the West are suckers for lslam, and it will destroy us, we give and they take.
Brillant. Let's be more like a theocratic state.
Yes! A church or a synagogue in Mecca… let's try that one!!
As a Canadian I'm watching the events that surround your President and his administration with great interest, especially America's foreign policy regarding the Middle East, the Jews, and Muslims. If the comments to this article are any indication, I get the impression that Americans are finally waking up to the dangers of Islam within your borders, I just hope we Canadians are not asleep either. Of course, America is the big prize in the eyes of the Islamists in their attempt for an Islamic Caliphate; Canada is "small potatoes." The Islamists know full well that if America falls, we all fall. So America…stay strong and free. We all need you.
~Steve~" If the comments to this article are any indication, I get the impression that Americans are finally waking up to the dangers of Islam within your borders"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now this is a statement I can support since in spite of being a left-leaning Independent, I strongly believe my fellow Americans are still naive about the insidious, unstable nature of the Islamic religion. I've heard that today's moderate Muslim is a potential sleeper cell member now and a potential jihadist tomorrow. I'm almost persuaded of the veracity of that statement…almost. I've seen it happen from within the ranks of vets…I'm ex-military.The press isn't fully awake yet but they're getting better. You know, regardless of political philosophy, a zealot is a zealot is a zealot.
"Freedom of worship in America is a sacred tradition, as well as a constitutional right, while, in many Muslim states, practicing any religion other than Islam is a crime."
A mega lie in the second part of the statement. Among more than 40 so-called Muslim states you will find religious intolerance only in a very few, such the US-backed Saudi Arabia and the war-torn Afghanistan.
Iran is depicted as anti-Semitic, yet Jewish population practice their religion freely. In fact, Iranian Jews are much more safer than Muslims in Iran. Turkey has recently justifiably denounced and condemned Zionist atrocities and aggression, yet the Jewish minority in Turkey is free and secure.
BTW, this is not the only false propaganda in the article. As almost always, all of the articles published in this site distorts or exaggerates facts related to Muslims. Reason? Study the world's fascists and you will see exactly the same modus operandi.
Peace,
"Turkey has recently justifiably denounced and condemned Zionist atrocities and aggression, yet the Jewish minority in Turkey is free and secure."
The above statement is an insult to any discerning intelligent person who is familiar with the facts.
"Iran is depicted as anti-Semitic, yet Jewish population practice their religion freely. In fact, Iranian Jews are much more safer than Muslims in Iran."
Is this why there are only 3.5 Jews left in Iran? A bizarre circumstance indeed given all the freedoms Iran has bestowed upon her happy former Jewish citizens.
Were there 4.5 Jews in Iran before? Can you provide any evidence that Jews in Iran were forced to leave the country in mass, as more than a million Iraqis were forced from their land by the human rights champion USA-Inc?
You wrote: "Iran is depicted as anti-Semitic, yet Jewish population practice their religion freely. In fact, Iranian Jews are much more safer than Muslims in Iran. Turkey has recently justifiably denounced and condemned Zionist atrocities and aggression, yet the Jewish minority in Turkey is free and secure….."
A big part of my religion is open and proud support of Israel and the land of Israel as the Jewish people's heritage. I am a Zionist. Can a Jew in Iran or Turkey be an open supporter of Israel? A proud Zionist? If as in the case of Iran, Jews are a "protected" people (i.e,. dhimmis) are they then equal? Can a Jew be a prime minister in Turkey or the president of Iran?
A good point. Zionism is racism and the world is witnessing its crimes against humanity. Though I am a firm supporter of freedom of expression, even for fascists and Zionists, but I recognize a big difference between an Al-Qaida supporter and a Sunni, and between a KKK member and Catholic, between a Zionist and a Jew. If I go to Iran, they would arrest me and perhaps execute me without much delay. If Iran arrested and executed a single Jew for his or her religious practice now everyone would know the name of that person.
Why do you say that Zionism is racism? Zionism is the view that Jews should have the right to live in their ancestral home. And what crimes against humanity has it committed? The Turkish government sent a ship to Gaza with weapons for Hamas, which proclaims that it will exterminate all Jews. There are few Jews left in Turkey because of persecution, and few in Persia for the same reason. Note that Jews have lived in the area which is now Turkey and in Persia since antiquity, long before the conquests of Mohammed and his followers.
Don't forget the Armenian genocide carried by the Turks.
There was no weapons for Hamas in the ship. There were a few chair legs, kitchen knives, etc. Weapons for Hamas? If you consider kitchen knife as a weapon against Israeli killing machine, then there is something pathological in your perception.
Nice try there, slick. But the IDF troops rappelling onto the Mavi Marmara's deck did not bring their Merkavas with them.
You need to hop on YouTube and do some more surfing.
And could you please show me some documentation for your claim that Zionism seeks the eradication of any other races, like Islam does.
Jews in Iran are hardly free from persecution. Episodically, particularly during periods of tensions with Israel and/or America, Iranian Jews are rounded up and imprisoned as "spies".
Meanwhile, attacks against synagogues and Jewish individuals in Turkey are on the rise. As in France, Jews feel increasingly threatened by a pervasively anti-Semitic atmosphere.
Thankfully, there is a Jewish State for them to seek refuge. I write this as a non-practicing Christian.
I admit that there is anger against Israel in Turkey, but Jewish businesses are making profits as they used to be. Turkish people, though are no better than any other people, are able to discriminate between a supremacist Zionist and a Jew.
The Iranian and Turkish authorities go to great lenghts to ensure the safety of Jews living in their respective countries – its a propoganda tool, nothing more. lt doesnt mean they are pluralist and in the case of Iran it certainly doesnt mean lran is a secular society. Btw the KKK hasnt killed anyone in a very long time. Leftists keep citing FAR RIGHT CHRISTIANS and KKK members as being SCARY and THREATENING when there are NO ATTACKS ANYWHERE – boy am l sick of hearing them whinge and moan and make rediculous false comparisons. Are leftists brain dead? You know they are.
Interesting. It is bad if Jews are mistreated in Iran and Turkey, and it is bad if they are fine and dandy. Your response proves two things. You are:
1. Paranoid.
2. Warmonger.
hello! time mag. says the repubs shouldn't ride this horse.be afraid! shake! don't make a big deal out of this.time says so oooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOhhhh! i'm afraid.sh-t on time all the time i say.there's a saying we have.throw a stone in the dark and if a dog cries you've hit him.time is the dog.i wouldn't use it to wrap fish.
__SIR,____Impeach Obama for TREACHERY, in supporting the Muslim Mosque near 9/11 SITE, where over 3,000 citizens were murdered.____ Has Islam conquered the U.S.A.?____FOR SHAME, SHAME, SHAME AMERICA!____Obama is violating his Presidential Oath of Office, to defend the U.S.A.. His lack of activity in protecting the borders from Terrorist Infiltrators, plus his stifling of the debate on Islam and Jihadists, is extreme grounds for Impeachment.__His Treachery must be stopped, as he is undermining the American Constitution, through his appointment of Tsars. He is also weakening Democracies WORLD WIDE, BY DESIGN.____ ARCH ANGEL MICHAEL’S CLARION CALL!____WARRIORS OF GOD’S LIGHT, ARISE!____FOR LIBERTY’S SAKE!____THE FLAME OF FREEDOM SPEAKS, THE FLAME OF FREEDOM WITHIN EACH HEART.__THE FLAME OF FREEDOM SAITH UNTO ALL: COME APART NOW AND BE A SEPARATE AND CHOSEN PEOPLE, ELECT UNTO GOD.______ALSO CHECK THE “Ban Islam “ petition on Google.____LABouchard@shaw.ca___ _http://mypage.direct.ca/l/lbouchar/ “GUARDIANS OF DEMOCRACY” PH. 250 995-1760________________
Sorry, but that link is not working. How can we get into it another way?
Damn that Obamma. He is the devil in disguise. Yet he is hailed HERO by the mass media every G.D. day. Sad.
9/11 MOSQUE REVERSAL: WHY DEVELOPERS ARE MEETING WITH PATERSON
After rejecting an offer by Governor Paterson to discuss an alternate location for their victory mosque near Ground Zero Imam Rauf's supremacist group did a 180 turn and agreed to a meeting less than 24 hours later. Why the sudden reversal? Is this a PR stunt concocted by these fanatics to seem reasonable and flexible? Or were they dragged kicking and screaming to the meeting because Governor Paterson had the power to ruin their plans?
Google ApolloSpeaks at Townhall.com to continue article
Over the last 2 years, Obamma has blurted out a few comments which clearly show his position on Islam.
1-He refered to the USA as a mostly Moslem nation.
2-He mentioned his Moslem upbringing.
And now you are surprised at this? Wake up America, and smarten up too!
" “As a citizen and as President, I believe that Muslims have the right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country.” You would have to search far and wide to find Americans who would disagree with that sentiment." – Not as far as you think!
I believe in the Constitution, and that freedom of religion is a basic right in America!!
However, I strongly disagree that it can and should be applied to muslims and islam!!!
Islam is NOT a religion; nor, is it even a "Cult" – Islam is a total ideology of World Conquest and tyranny, forcing all to submit to Sharia Law or die!!
It's religious component is but a mask to hide the main components of this life system: Legal, Political, Economic, Social, and MILITARY components. They use the "religion" card only to infiltrate other countries and to hide their true goals inside their fake church's.
The so called "prophet" they worship was an 7th century arab tribesman who stole the name of an ancient arab moon god to "annoint" himself as a prophet of to get his armies to follow him. He was no less than a tyrant, conquering every culture in his path, while raping, stealing, murdering, torturing everyone he conquered. Those who survived were either enslaved or sold as slaves to others.
His "mosques", like the one in Jerusalem, were no more than monuments to himself in his conquered lands!! Just as this will be!
After his death, his followers periodically have risen up and again attempted to conquer the World. The last empire of these catbox dwellers was the Ottoman Empire we beat back in WWI!!
So you cannot justify anything muslim by any standard of religious freedom.
rd
I've not seen any credible scholar argue that Islam is not a religion. We may not agree with other world religions – I do not agree with the theology of other religions – but they are religions nonetheless according to the definition of "religion."
I think we on the Right do ourselves a disservice when we deny Islam is a religion. I am listening to Limbaugh just now telling his audience this mosque has nothing to do with religion or the freedom of religion when in fact it has everything to do with both. I hate to see a radical leftist like Obama "properly" invoke the Free Exercise clause of the First Amendment and conservative twist like pretzels denying this has anything to do with religion. Islam is a a religion. It is a very dangerous religion that ultimately poses an existential threat to the West. The question is, are we going to address the implications of this religion or are we going to deny it is a religion?
Can we prove Machiavelli was wrong? We've had 500 years, and time is running out:
"It is not, therefore, necessary for a prince to have [good faith and integrity], but it is very necessary to seem to have them. . . Thus it is well to seem merciful, faithful, humane, sincere, religious, and also to be so; but you must have the mind so disposed that when it is needful to be otherwise you may be able to change to the opposite qualities. . .
"Everyone sees what you appear to be, few feel what you are, and those few will not dare to oppose themselves to the many, who have the majesty of the state to defend them; and in the actions of men, and especially princes, from which there is no appeal, the end justifies the means. Let a prince therefore aim at conquering and maintaining the state, and the means will always be judged honorable and praised by every one, for the vulgar are always taken by appearances and the issue of the event; and the world consists only of the vulgar, and the few who are not vulgar are isolated when the many have a rallying point in the prince."
Buraq Hussein Obama wa born a Muslim, and remained a practicing Muslim all through his youth in Indonesia and Hawaii, throughout his undergaduate years at Occidental and Columbia, while in the Harvard Law School where he had all his expenses paid for by the Black Muslim Khalid Al-Monsour, and remained a Muslim into his 30's untile he converted for political reasons, to Black Liberation Theology under his mentor, the racist anri-semite Reverend Jeremiah Wright. His speech in Cairio, his almost a cowtow bowing before the Saudi King, his snubbing of Israel's Netanyahu, his royalty treatment of a non head of state, the Palestinian Authority's Abbas, and his appointment of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man spearheading the Ground Zero Mosque initiative and a Hamas supporter, as almost almost an ambassador w/o portfolio to the Muslim world, and finally his overtures to Iran who is actively supporting al Qaeda and the Taliban. This Buraq Hussein Obama is a true enemy of the American people. May he soon assume room temperature.
'… There was nothing wrong with the first part of Obama’s statement …' I beg to differ: I don't believe there should be a mosque at Ground Zero or anywhere else on US soil. Furthermore, I believe there is no place for muslims or islam in America.
I wonder: precisely what form of organized, mass buggery – calling itself 'religion' – could our chattering class muster the courage to oppose? I draw the line at islam and I suspect many, many other Americans do, also.
A right is your ability to do what you want provided that it does not harm others. There is now and has been limits to the practice of religion. The Mormons,for example, have been arrested for polygamy. The Muslims are not free to practice honor killings or stonings. We have limits to speech which offends others. The building of a mosque on a particular site is not the practice of a religion. It is very offensive to millions of people. When Muslims took offense at a cartoon of Mohammed by a Danish cartoonist there were riots all over the Muslim world. It seems to be widely agreed that such offenses are punishable by law. So let's agree that such offenses must go but then there is no ground for the building of a mosque at the current location.
The shame is on Islam. Muslims have no sensitivity to the feelings of others. They should convert to Christianity and learn to "love your neighbor as yourself." Christains have removed a convent from near Aushwitz, but Muslims continue to take advantage of democracy while Islam promotes fundamentalist law that is the antithesis of our Democracy.
There is a question that I have not heard an answer to.
Were there other parties interested in the building before the Muslims that want the mosque there? If so, why weren't they able to purchase the building?
I have heard, but without evidence to back it up, that potential buyers had previously been told that the building was to become an historical landmark and, therefore, would be worthless to anyone interested in purchasing the old building and putting up a new one.
If this is true, then why did NYC decide not to make it a landmark when the mosque builders became interested?
Ridiculous. Obama's complete statement was thoughtful, measured and constitutionally sound. He even made the point that just because something is constitutional doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. How much more presidential do you need?
Building a Mosque in that location is politicizing the site, specially the dead of 3000 Americans! Now, the imam was offered a another locaion to build , etc., and he is refusing. The president can't see the problem and therefore he cannot come up with a solution. So, the clown is now lecturing everybody about freedom of religion…
I agree with eveything you're saying except calling the president a 'clown'. That weakens your point. Don't you see that?
Øbama said words to the effect, “We treat everyone the same; Muslims have just as much right to practice their religion the same as everyone else.”
Does this mean that he plans to start treating Islam the same as Christianity?
Let them build the mosque.
Drones.
And whats with Bloomberg he's a fanatic about that mosque,he also recently hired octavia nasr who was fired from CNN for tweeting pro Hezbollah messages.Now she works for Bloomberg as his mid East expert
And that even begs the question as to why the mayor of a city need a "Mid East Expert"!
Mentioning religious intolerance only in Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan is being deliberately naive.At least add Pakistan. But the question is this, for all Muslims whether moderate or extremist: Should churches be built in Saudi Arabia and Christians be allowed to convert Muslims?
No point in just hiding behind the skirts of Saudi Arabia. What would Mohamed say or do?
Øbama said words to the effect, “We treat everyone the same; Muslims have just as much right to practice their religion the same as everyone else.”
Does this mean that he plans to start treating Islam the same as Christianity is treated in this country?
Edip Yuksel is saying that chrustian & the Jews are safe and allowed to practice their faith. In some respect he is wright. however, even in a more religes tolerent country as what Iran used tobe, it was forbiden for any church or sinagog to be re-built or re-vampet, so it will over the time deteriorate, and vanish. Some of the historical churches in the tri-satate mountains of Iran, Iraq & Turky were not permited to be fixed. As a middle estrn Christian, it was degrading that when my mother went shopping for food she was not allowed to touch and pick any of the items, because she was Christian, and she was un-clean, while a lot of population were riden with lice and dirty smell of their body. I wish that Americans can wake up and learn that Islam is not a faith, but a dominant idology.
Fully awake, Arab!!
Dear Arab, though I do not think what you are telling is common practice in those countries, if there is such a policy, I condemn it. There should not be compulsion regarding religion. Peace.
100 mosques in New York City alone and Zero churches,temples or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.Since Mr. Obama is so passionate about religious freedom,why hasn't he pressured
leaders of Muslim states on protecting the freedoms of their religious minorities?
Better off not making ANY comment about the mosque. Why did he need to say anything. It is a poor political move.
can robert spencer or someone with the information bring a lawsuit against sharia/islam that they should be denied protection under the constitution because it is not a faith based religion, but rather the most virulent form of totalitarianism?
Holy moly, you people are nutjobs. "We are going to have to resist with violence and even then I think it is too late to save the country." WOW. Yeah, that's NOTHING like Muslim extremists, Jean. You're just like the people you vilify. Unbelievable. Does everybody here have an IQ of, like, 70?