Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Dr. Fred Gottheil, a professor of Economics at the University of Illinois.
FP: Dr. Fred Gottheil, welcome to Frontpage Interview.
I would like to discuss with you today a recent experiment you did — The Statement of Concern — which exposed the hypocrisy of leftist academics who pretend they care about women’s rights and the rights of gays and lesbians.
Tell us about the Statement of Concern, what motivated you to do it and what its results have been.
Gotteil: My “Statement of Concern” came about more by accident than by design. I was searching for someone or some subject on Google.com — can’t remember exactly — when I chanced upon multiple listings of Professor David Lloyd’s anti-Israel petition. That was in early January, 2009, just after the Gaza war. Lloyd’s petition, addressed to incoming President Obama, asked for a US abandonment of Israel. His four-page argument read as if it were written by Ahmadinejad himself. Of course, that wasn’t really interesting, considering the source. But it was the lead-in heading on so many of these petition-carrying sites that drew my attention. It read something like “900 Academics Sign Petition Against Israel …” I became more curious about who these 900 academics were than about the substance of the petition and found myself going carefully through the list of those 900. Did I recognize any? Indeed I did. Six were on faculty at the University of Illinois and one actually affiliated with its Jewish Studies Program! A few more were “the usual suspects” types but I couldn’t help but wonder who the others were and why they would sign onto such a distorted account of Israel.
I began searching through their web sites, making note of the signers’ research interests and department affiliations. That’s when I discovered that many were faculty in women and gender studies departments. The thought occurred to me: Would these same 900 sign onto a statement expressing concern about human rights violations in the Muslim Middle East, such as honor killing, wife-beating, female genital mutilation, and violence against gays and lesbians? I felt it was worth a try. My ‘Statement of Concern’ became a four-page document providing evidence of these human rights violations and identifying leading authorities – mainly Muslim clerics and professors – who condoned these anti-women and anti-gay practices. By late spring, I had the email addresses of 675 who signed Lloyd’s petition and sent them my ‘Statement of Concern,’ requesting their support. The results were surprising even though I thought the responses would be few. They were almost non-existent.
FP: What do you think explains this double standard on the Left in general and among leftist academics in particular?
Gottheil: Good question. And not an easy one to answer. I certainly claim no expertise but let me take a stab at it. You know, it’s not one size fits all. Some on the Left identify Israel with the US and that’s damning enough. Others, I think, see themselves as championing the cause of third-world people and, in this kind of mind-set, see Israel as white and successful, a deadly combination. There are some leftists — Marxists, mostly — who claim to oppose any form of nationalism and therefore regard Jews who are Zionist as enemy. Incidentally, these same leftists don’t seem to get too upset with African-style nationalism or even Arab-style nationalism. It’s just Jewish nationalism that gets their goat. Interesting, isn’t it? And we can’t discount the gorilla in the living room: plain old Anti-Semitism. It’s alive a well among the Left, and despite their vociferous denials, a growing phenomenon. In this respect, the academic Left is hardly different from the non-academic Left. They may be just a little more sophisticated in their loathing of Israel, but scratch the surface and it’s all the same.
FP: What conclusions do we make from your experiment?
Gottheil: What conclusions do I draw from this? The academic leftists are caught in an ideologically discriminatory trap of their own making. It turns out that with all their professing of principle, they are sanctimonious bigots at heart. And some are so obsessed about Israel that they would undermine their own self interest. Witness the faculty in gender studies who signed the anti-Israel petition but didn’t sign my “Statement of Concern” which is about discrimination of women, gays, and lesbians in the Muslim Middle East. Sort of pathetic, actually.
Maybe they should build a mosque at every university and use it as a power center to put the adoring professors under Islamic Law if they don't like ours. It would be voluntary of course.
Nice thought and i also fell that you doing a big research about this topic. researchpaper | book report
I agree with Jamie, the Left IS disingenuous in their support of women. This goes all the way back to the OJ Case, when race trumped gender and Tammy Bruce was fired by NOW for leading a demonstration against domestic violence during the trial.
Race still trumps gender for the feminist Left, and Muslims, by virtue of their ethnic and cultural "otherness", are seen as intrinsically virtuous. It's an inverted racism and it's nauseating.
Excellent write-up,your blog is certainly one of the most inspiring and informative blogs i've visited. Thank you for sharing!
Human Rights Watch…
The end of Soviet Communism left HRW, had it truly believed in its stated goals, with a wide and varied field of targets for investigation around the world. In particular, radical Islamist regimes like Wahhabi-dominated Saudi Arabia and the clerical dictatorship in Iran, with their associated proxies, should have come under sharp examination by HRW. HRW epitomizes the dual standard that holds the Jewish state to the highest possible criterion for human rights protection, while neglecting the gross and continuous denial of human rights in Israel’s neighbors. More at : http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2009/08/h…
This is an excellent debating point with the left. Why aren't more conservatives using this in response to the left's accusations of "bigotry" against muslims?
Cause we havent had any conservatives that had the ability to respond till just a few weeks ago.
You watch, pretty soon all the repubs, even mccain, will claim they are conservatives : )
Debating a leftist on ANY issue is an exercise in futility. They are emotionalists and most lack any substance to their positions – it's always about "feelings". They are easily cornered in debate and quickly resort to angry (more emotion) ad hominum attacks. It's all they've got. http://maxentropy.squarespace.com
Universities – Little Islands of Oppression within the Sea of FReedom
Send them all to Indonesia!
Thank you, Professor Gottheil, you are the University of Illinois profess-sewer, Bill Ayers.
I spent 2 1/2 years as an undergraduate at the Champaign-Urbana campus (1962 to 1965) , before transferring to 4 years in the United States Air Force. I can once again be proud of my Alma Mater.
Frank Losos
PIttsburgh, PA
Please update my previous comment. I left out two extremely important words. Meant to say. "Thank you, Professor Gottheil, you are the University of Illinois antitidote to profess-sewer, Bill Ayers. I spent 2 1/2 years as an undergraduate at the Champaign-Urbana campus (1962 to 1965) , before transferring to 4 years in the United States Air Force. I can once again be proud of my Alma Mater
Frank Losos
Pittsburgh, PA
Yes, I have noted the hypocrisy of most liberals for years. Jamie, I believe you analysis regarding how the left wants to destroy us, democracy, capitalism, is spot on.
Yes, it's important that your boogeyman want to destroy you and everything you stand for.
Do you support socialism and/or communism? Do agree with capitalism? Do you support our country and its freedoms? Do you condemn citizens in Central, North or South American for what happened to the aboriginals?
I don't get how not responding to a questionaire tags someone as a Leftist anti-Semitic bigot. I'm not disagreeing with the conclusion but the means to gathering it seems to be a jump.
I agree, but what people don't say is often more signficant than what is said.
I don't think it tags them so much as anti-anything other than hypocritical. They did not take the time to sign onto a document in support of something they should care most about if they are truly liberal in the real meaning of the word. They are not trying to protect the most volunerable in a those societies.
You're assuming they read it….
What jump? Gottheil send his petition supporting the rights of women, homosexuals, and gays in Muslim countries to leftist university teachers of gender studies who had signed a virulent anti-Israel petition.
Correct, he sent it & is ASSUMING/concluding a reason they didn't respond to it without knowing it to be the case. That's a jump.
Ok then forget about this petition, where is any petition? Where is the outrage by these people.
Lacking, very lacking.!!
Exactly, why Davarino himself has issued several petitions against abuses in other countries. It's the only way we know that he objects to the most horrible human rights abuses on earth.
Now its about me? Cool
Maybe I will start my own "whatever studies" at some university. We'll march in the streets and demand justice for tomatoes.
Well you better, lest you be accused of remaining silent on the mistreatment of fruit.
If it were one person failing to respond to the questionnaire, I agree….nothing to base any kind of conclusion on. But when HUNDREDS upon HUNDREDS fail to respond to the questionnaire, and every one of them signed the anti-Israel petition? I think "obvious" would be a gross understatement.
There are ways to trick your own mind into believing this while believing that so I don't know if this is just hypocrisy or some other aberration that resembles hypocrisy but is more insidious.
I wish Professor Gottheil had given a number for the number of academics he contacted who were willing to sign (or unwilling to sign) his Statement of Concern. Also, I would like to have been told what positions that Statement took on issues other than oppression based on gender and gender orientation in Muslim countries. It would have made the condemnation of hypocritical leftist intellectuals much clearer to have known those things.
It also might have made the vague smear impossible to make.
But I'm glad you see that "condemnation" of "leftist intellectuals" was the goal of the article…now if you can lose that pesky desire to actually see what the writer is talking about…then you will be a true FPM'r
I get petitions all the time, anyone can write and circulate one. I don't sign unless it's clear to me who the source is. In this case I imagine either the source was unclear or, more likely, a quick Google search revealed it to come from an ideological hack with an axe to grind, something confirmed by this nonsense interview. This is pretty a pretty basic issue of research design which, typically, isn't discussed here.
Economists really should not try to do social science, they are incompetent enough when it comes to the economy.
are social scientists competent enough when they opinionate on issue of enviroment?
So let me get this straight. You sign a petition based not on what it says, but on who wrote it? Sounds like the ideological pot calling the kettle black.
U of I Prof. as a heading shd. have been enough. It doesn't take a graduate degree to see what this reveals.
Well, OK, so how bout this numbnuts. Name ONE petition that has been signed by any of these so called "do gooders" pertaining to this subject from anyone, anywhere, at any time.
So you sermize that this petition wasnt signed based on its possible wrong wording, or because he is a hack, or he …… whatever. So who has written a petition with the credentials and wording that you like?
Anybody, anybody?
Ya, your such a genious, you figured out the conspiracy
more information on Professor Gottheil's responses can be found here:
http://fresnozionism.org/2010/09/an-empirical-tes…
What amazes me is the American Jews overwhelmingly support leftist causes and the leftist agenda. That they hate America is nothing new. American Jewish professors are the most ardent supporters of Hamas and Islam. So of course Israel is a demon. Ideology trumps everything. The question is how do they reconcile their support for Islam and support women's/gay rights? Their level of cognitive disonance must be unreal.
Read "The Politics of Bad Faith" by Horowitz. See especially his essay there on "The Religious Roots of Radicalism". Then read the whole book. It's the best education you'll ever get on what Radicalism is all about. Read it!
Not a new idea of mine, but it has been said before that once Jews realized that there was no God to save them from persecution, they turned to the state (and in America, statists=leftist agenda) for relief. Jews may yet realize that the state won't save them either – I just hope that it is sooner rather than later.
Jews supporting leftist causes is the same as blacks voting for democrats. Self hate for being what you are is a psychological issue I'll never understand.
I have always found that leftist academics are committed to only promote their progressive agendas and to seek indoctrinates, not to dispense knowledge and cultivate the intellects of their students. They openly display their anti Americanism, anti semitism, and their hostility to anyone who doesn't share their one world government ideology.
This sort of hypocrisy is so pervasive, I am almost to the point that I will not allow liberal-socialists to even apply to our think tank.
I find it baffling that he does not GIVE these miniscule numbers who responded? I am awfully curious what percentage it is? Also, were there ANY comments negative or positive in response? These are two obvious journalistic gaffes that I (and my curiosity) find rather annoying.
"Only thirty of the 675 “self-described social-justice seeking academics” responded, 27 of them agreeing to endorse the Statement. But these 27 signatories represent less than five percent of the 675 contacted. In other words, 95 percent of those who had signed the Lloyd petition censuring Israel for human rights violation did not sign a statement concerning discrimination against women and gays and lesbians in the Middle East."
Please name a petition on this subject that has been signed.
A petition that passes your smell test.
This statement
"To me, if you don’t support Israel’s right to defend itself as best that it can against people and states who wish to destroy it, you’re not much of a human rights practitioner."
Is worth remembering because it is very true.
Many of the major U.S. Universities have received burseries of up to $15,000,000 dollars yearly, to push the Islamic study courses that are pure fiction and propagaanda for the Muslim Trojan Horse within our Academies.. Those professors have sold themselves to the highest bidder.
We should strengthen the legal clause for TREASON AND COLLUSION WITH THE ENEMY OF DEMOCRACY.
Also start with Obama for his treachery.
I'm curious if you can provide a link to this information? I have searched for anything related to what you wrote for a half hour and haven't found anything. I would appreciate if you can provide a source.
FPM's headlines are pretty funny in an idiotic sort of way. How exactly would signing this help "defend" woman's rights n Arab countries? And if it's not actively defending, it's a waste of time, correct?
If I don't get 3,000 thumbs up for this post in the next hour, it really means that FPM readers hate America and are against freedom.
Ya and your brain dont think good. Nor is it a good use of my time to try and jump start your brain so it can think good.
I notice your posts often condemn FPM and its posters as idiotic. Which makes me wonder why an obviously brilliant person like you wastes her time here and why you can't seem to mount a thoughtful counter argument?
You just don't understand his "counter argument"…which is pointing out the intellectual dishonesty in this whole affair…and the meaningless test, tricks and ultimatums FPM is always displaying as proof.
WIth -11 points on his post, I think tricky is exposing this site as anti-American. After all, he made the call to show you were for freedom and you remained silent. What are we to think?
Why have we allowed white and sucessful become a deadly combination?
Trickyblain. HAHAHAHA. Oh wait, you were serious. Silly liberals logic is for adults.
i also want to know about Why have we allowed white and sucessful become a deadly combination? Admission essay | thesis
While there are legitimate criticisms regarding the survey, look at it in context. Here are a bunch of "academics" who hold themselves out as champions of womens, gays, etc., rights and grievenses, real or imagined. The vaste majority do not even take the time to respond to the same issues, in "sheet" holes around the world. Now, would their participation make a difference? Don't know. Don't know that their participation makes a difference in this country. Keep in mind, however, this was not just a run of the mill sample, but included people, who hold themselves out as champions of something. Contrast with FPM, which has never said that it is championing these causes. Likewise, with me. If I didn't respond, it would be quite another thing. I never held myself out to champion these causes, or even said if I cared about them or not, whether the rights were being violated in Del Rio or Kabul.
I don't think it's out of context. Say I send out 1,000,000 emails to random people, and said "Racism is not good – email me if you condemn it." What if nobody responds? Is it reasonable to just assume that not one of those million people condemn racism?
He didn't mail it to "random people". He a particular sample, with particular qualifications. More importantly these were people had signed on to another petition regarding alleged human rights abuses. These weren't just every other "Bubba" and "Jesus" in Del Rio. These were people who had taken a position. Now personally, I don't care if these camel drivers do belong to the "Slapahoe" tribe, but if you do believe in the cause, then abuse is abuse. I believe there are significant differences in the way people are "wired" regarding things like this, but these are people who are willing to stick their nose into the business of one foreign/sovereign nation, but apparently, don't care enough to do it with another one.
Ok, I guess I do have to waste my time dealing with you, but just this once. Please name one petition from anyone, on this subject, that has been signed by these good professors, or any others.
Where is the outrage
Simple question
Google "women's rights middle east"
You'll come up with over 7 million hits, starting with the Huffington Post. Sorry, but I don't know who most of these profs are, let alone what petitions they have or have not signed. I'm guessing you don't either.
Google "womens rights middle east petition"
Ya there are petitions out there, by people in the middle east. Again where is the outrage here in the US by any of these good profs, or "do gooders" that you know of, or approve of, or pass your smell test, DNA test
all lefties need to be round up and shipped to the middle east
Hopefully not to Israel – we have enough of them here!
The Islamic Society will sponsor 'Stone a Gay Day' at U. C. Berzerckly and they would still not bat an eyelash.
Pathetic sanctimonious bigots indeed…
You have a point, and are probably correct. However, one of the possible responses, provided they kept there nose out of the Israeli issue, would be that they only can really influence stuff in the U.S. Well, if that is the case, then I don't see any of them coming to the aid of firearms owners/dealers/manufacturers whose rights are violated every day.
"So I would not be labeled completely evil to most of my leftist colleagues were it not for my advocacy of Israel. " Bingo. Prof. Gottheil has stumbled on what George Gilder calls "The Israel Test". It's not just that they deny Israel's Jews the same right to statehood they grant to every other nation. They resent Israel's successes, rather than respecting them for those successes. They decry Israel's adherence to Western traditions and values and (gasp!) their closeness to the US.
NAME THEM AND SHAME THEM. Please give us the names?
Wouldn't work, Beverley. They don't have any shame. In fact, they're darn proud of their seditious activities.
Since you don't feel the need to provide or link to either your "Statement of Concern" or the Lloyd’s original petition, I can't see giving any of this any credence.
You don't have to do a triple blind study and write a term paper, but this is lazy and shows that it's not important to the writer to actually inform. In fact, it would be all too easy to just make up such an interview from top to bottom…hell, it's not like any of you are going to look it up.
Ah you've figured it out, your on to us.
Ok, trash the whole article, where is any petition? Where is the outrage, the concern, by any of these "do gooders", by any "do gooder" that meets with your approval?
Davarino, I know you don't care. But, honestly, FPM has gotten worse over the years…they don't have any links or footnotes. What is the problem…if you are looking at the document you are writing an article about, LINK TO IT.
To much to ask? You don't seem to have a problem…you're ready to condemn an amorphous group of "do gooders"…
This whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. I have looked on Google for the professor's "statement of concern" and I can't find it. Without being able to read it how can I judge someone's refusal to sign it. This is not acceptable that Front Page would not have a link.
It's just more b.s. to pound your ideological opponents , with the expected respone from the residing peanut gallery .
For the same matter , to be truly scientific and CREDIBLE , the good professor should have found atleast "900 "academic on the "rightist " side and asked the same question.Not to mention the " list " seems to be just a bit suspect . OR is it to be automatically ASS-UMED that all academics are A) Lefties B} against Israel C} ergo , they are apathetic regarding the rights of gays and women in Middle Eastern countries lol..and intrinsically at that !
Sorry Jamie , but all your article proves is that the "pavlovian response " works just as well in humans .
And you bit yet another HOOK .
BTW , to be fair , this works just as well on lefties as it does on "conservatives /republicans / righties " lol…just go to Anti.War , Justin Raimondo's "smear the right " blog .
All this really proves is that people intelligent enough to operate a computer , will swallow anything , without exercising ANY effort to cross-check , verify or qualify the information that placed on the plate for their copnsumption .
Further confirmation of this , is that without exception , all the "internet demagogues , get "PUNKED " at least once a week , for various reasons , but punked nonetheless .
This is a valid article that demonstrates the left's hypocrisy. Why not slam the intolerant Muslim Middle-East for human rights violations when you continually slam Israel for human rights violations.
The professor could not publish names because he would be targeted by academia, and he would probably be harassed.
Oh ? Where is the " good professor's " moral courage , the article is about as valid as the non-scientific psuedo-survey the professor produced .
It generalizes , infers , and assumes , the things that the uninformed snap up .
I have two issues with Dr. Gottheil's conclusion. First, I would like to know what the Statement of Concern precisely stated. Is the letter available anywhere? I did not see it on Dr. Gottheil's blog post. Without knowing the language used to attempt to gather signatures from these academics I can't condemn them.
Second, to assume that someone is a hypocrite simply because they didn't sign a request from someone they may not know is a bit of a stretch. How are we to know the majority of these people even read the petition? It is my guess that the 900 professors who signed the petition condemning Israel did not receive it as a mass email, but were probably forwarded the petition from someone they personally knew.
Perhaps those who signed and returned Dr. Gottheil's Statement of Concern forwarded it onto like-minded individuals and it's currently gaining more signatures in the same academic circles. How are we to know? This seems like a short-sighted study that is filled with flaws and was only initiated to confirm Dr. Gottheil's own viewpoint. This setup strongly hints of confirmation bias.
I would also like to know if Dr. Gottheil received any written responses from the mass of people sent the Statement of Concern. I would assume he received no vindictive written replies otherwise they would have become fodder in this interview and on his blog post.
Finally, if I gather 675 email addresses and send a letter asking if they will sign in support of gun rights, even if I send it to 675 registered NRA members, I can't imagine I'm going to receive many responses.
Interesting analysis of the cancer within western society. A microcosm of what happens when we abandon reason. Leftist professors are incapable of reasoned argument as they have convinced themselves that western society is evil.
A society that has the lowest levels of poverty in history, the best life expectancy, the most liberal politics ever, the greatest levels of equality. And the left hates it enough to single mindedly try to to destroy it.
This article exposes the left for what it is. But the antidote to this cancer is far from clear. I fear we'll end up fighting it on the streets eventually.
I have to turn around Gottheil's point and wonder if he really cares about women and homosexuals in the Middle East, or if they are just a smokescreen to defend Israel. Taking a stand against human rights issues your own society has nothing to do with is typically a way of feeling better about your own invasions and occupations. The same British who caused a famine in India while it had a surplus of grain patted themselves on the back for abolishing sati (While we're at it, why the concern for abominable cultural practices by Muslims and not Hindus? Obviously has nothing to do with Israel's enemies not being Hindu. Two can play this game, you see.) One British lord had the gall to criticize the treatment of women in Egypt while opposing suffrage for British women.
Which brings me to the discourse surrounding our "liberation" of Iraq and Afghanistan. The refusal to see invasions by a western state as a form of systematic oppression gives way to a moral highground of sludge.
We are the cause of Israel's human rights abuses as well and auditing its critics while condemning its enemies isn't exactly principled in the way of social justice.
Dr. Gottheil's Statement of Concern is now posted at PetitionsOnline.com, and is accepting signatures from anyone willing to speak out against human rights abuses in the Middle East. As you're obviously interested in the story, I urge you to step up and sign it: Support Regarding Discrimination in the Middle East against Women, Gays, and Lesbians Petition
Interesting. I had Prof Gottheil for Econ 101 in the late 1970's where if memory serves me right he self-described in the initial lecture as a leftist. Perhaps not that he changed, but that the academy moved
I recently resigned from Amnesty International because I simply could not get any kind of response to repeated queries as to why AI has never issued any reports on the collusion of certain black African governments with exterminationist policies against white minorities, the most obvious examples being Zimbabwe and South Africa.
it may come as a shock to many to realize that if the government of a black African nation decides to carry out a Rwandan style extermination of all whites in the country, the international community will probably refrained from criticizing that government for fear of appearing "racist."
after all, "racism is something white people inflict on black people, never vice versa."
is it really necessary to point out that to hold blacks and Muslims to an infinitely lower standard is the ultimate form of racism???????
I regard myself as a lifelong progressive, but I do not recognize today's progressive community at all.
as far as I can tell, they are in the grips of a mass psychosis.
Gottheil's "statement of concern" has some very obvious differences from the petition asking the U.S. to change its policy regarding Israel. Support for Israel is an enormous expenditure from the pockets of American taxpayers, who have the right to make specific statements about the behavior of a country they are supporting. Gottheil's statement, in stark contrast, has nothing to do with U.S. policy or even for the most part with the behavior of states. Instead it veers into vast generalizations about whole societies and implicitly at least about Islam itself, quoting "Surra [sic] 4:34" to suggest that any translation from the Qur'an, no matter even how linguistically and historically questionable the translation might be, is actual policy throughout "the Middle Eastern countries." And is such discrimination only evident in those countries? I guess those who refuse to repeal "Don't ask, don't tell" are all actually from the Middle East, then? People who can't see the difference between apples and oranges can have a heyday with Gottheil's silly game, but if you people can't think any better than this this country really is in a bad way.