Recently two prominent Eastern Catholic bishops have made statements that are not only curious and counter-factual, but apparently contradictory of their earlier statements, or at least not obviously emanating from the same point of view as those earlier remarks. Both cases are indicative of a larger phenomenon regarding the difficulties that Christians in Islamic countries and non-Muslims in Muslim countries in general face.
In 2006, Archbishop Cyril Salim Bustros, Eparch of Newton for the Melkite Greek Catholics in the United States, said: “the doctrines of Islam dictate war against unbelievers.” He pointed out that “the concept of nonviolence is absent from Muslim doctrine and practice.” And he said that “peace in Islam is based on the surrender of all people to Islam and to God’s power based on Islamic law. They have to defend this peace of God even by force.”
And yet at the recently concluded Vatican Synod on Christians in the Middle East, he contradicted the teachings of the Catholic Church’s Second Vatican Council and echoed Islamic supremacist propaganda by saying that divine promises made to Israel according to Jewish and Christian Scripture “were nullified by Christ. There is no longer a chosen people.” He made no mention of the Muslim imperative to bring about “the surrender of all people to Islam” as being a possible contributing cause in the plight of Christians in the Middle East; instead, he blamed Israel only.
In 2007, Emmanuel III Delly, the Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans, head of the Chaldean Catholic Church, said this about the Christians in Iraq: “Christians are killed, chased out of their homes before the very eyes of those who are supposed to be responsible for their safety.” In 2008, he said: “The situation in some parts of Iraq, is disastrous and tragic. Life is a Calvary: there is no peace or security… Everyone is afraid of kidnapping.”
But on October 15 he said this at the Vatican’s Synod on Christians in the Middle East: “The population of this country, crossed by two famous rivers, the Tigris and the Euphrates, is 24 million, all Muslims, with whom we live peacefully and freely….Christians are good with their fellow Muslims and in Iraq there is mutual respect among them.”
(Quotes from Patriarch Emmanuel thanks to Robert Moynihan of Inside the Vatican.)
Why these shifts?
What for are Christians in Islamic countries anyway?
Well, what for had they moved into cannibalic hell wholes of the world in the past centuries? For a noble missionary purposes, to proselytize Christianity indeed…
If this held true in Islamic countries now, the Christian mission there would be similarly noble and even more purposeful. Yet being in their dhimmy status, this is a mission impossible (if not suicidal). In the imminent future war on Islam they will fall first victims.
Now they try to appease Moslems by shameful rejection of the Bible foundations, and by revisiting the slanderous Medieval "replacement" doctrine Re. the Jews. Yet this ruse will not save them when the all out war explodes anyway…
Christians are in these Muslim majority lands today because their ancestors were there hundreds of years before Mohammed was born and he created his cult of the pagan moon god of medina.
Hahahahahahaha!!! WTF!!!
Americans are really stoopid.
Amazing!
No wonder you follow a guy calling himself an Islamic scholar WITHOUT any official academic credentials in Islam…what a fail!
Pennswoods is absolutely correct: these small islands of Christianity in Moslem world predate Islam there. No doubt Christians have the rights to stay where their ancestry lived for millennia. They have the rights, yet they do not have safety, falling first victims when Mohammed cartoons or koran burning happens anywhere in the world (not to mention the real war).
Individual Bishops can say what they want & unfortunately sometimes they say the darndest things..
Altho some of the statements were said at the Synod of Bishops on Middle East Vatican Policy…NONE of the statements were included in the synod statement NOR were they acknowledged by anyone in the Church as valid, esp the one about the 'chosen' nature of the Jews…
re: judging people harshly…as I recall Mr. Spencer was quick to condemn one of the above named Bishops for his statements
It's sad that this past weekend in a Chaldean Catholic Church in Bagdad over 60 worshippers were killed in a planned attack by al-Quaeda thugs in that church during Mass. The ancient Chaldean Catholic's in Iraq are in union with Rome and they use Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, to celebrate Mass.
Not much can be said for a leader who does not stand for the truth. That these two altered their doctrinal stand AFTER their visit to a Romanist (Roman Catholic) "synod" is indicative of this organizations absolute and complete corruption. Jesus Christ would "spew them out of His mouth".
I've got to concur with your view that Jesus will have nothing to do with religious authorities who seek Israel's destruction and who deny Abraham and his descendant's God-given right to the land of Israel. I haven't a clue what Bible these men are reading.
Wild Jew (Still dig that name)
You like my name but I seem to recall you do not like not my brand of Zionism.
What "brand" is that? The brand that claims that since they are of a certain blood or lineage, or historical geographical origin that they hold some special status above other human beings and the rest of the world owes them something? Yeah, I reject any such brand as that.
But don't lose heart… the Jews I love far and away outnumber the Zionists I do not.
The Israelis don't believe they have some kind of special status over others. Theirs is a state that practices equality between the sexes, religions and races. I don't think I know of a Muslim majority state which does this.
I don't know what you mean by the Jews acting as if the world owes them something. A bit of bitterness and cruelty I detect in this comment, which goes against your supposed love of Jews. The Jews have always achieved their goals either against the odds or with little help from others.
The Jews you love are probably the types who tell you everything you what to hear about Israel and Islam. They probably view Islam as benevolent and romantic, and not as a religion that still retains apostasy laws and the belief that it is the ultimate religion to rule all others (talk about special status!)
P.s. 83% of world Jewry support Israel.
Wild Jew (I dig that name)
Abdullah is one of many BUT DON'T LOSE HEART, there are many non-Jews like me who support Israel and are grateful for Jewish contributions to the world. Personally, I prefer the enlightenment heroes like Spinoza who spearheaded the belief that religion should be criticized, something Islam has yet to experience.
Shalom
My comment is not directed at Jews, it was at Zionists…to me Zionists are equivalent to Nazis.
No, not after, during the synod. I am not sure Jesus would spew them out of his mouth. I
They may be good shepherds protecting their flock from the militant Muslims they live with.
They did not deny Christ. I am guessing you are a western Protestant. Well, there are hardly any indigenous Protestants in the Middle East. There are missionaries who can pick up and leave when the Muslims start attacking them. The native Christians are Catholics, Orthodox, and Copts. It is extremely uncharitable and arrogant of you to be slandering Christ's Church and other Christians. We all need to show solidarity with the Christians of the M.E. The best way would be for the Christians in the US, UK, Canada, ie, Christians living in safe countries, to speak up loudly and press their governments to push for freedom of religion in the M.E. The Christians living there cannot do it— they will be persecuted, or even more persecuted. Please read about persecution of Christians in the M.E. before you start judging.
It is not unloving to tell the truth, you can get into a lot of trouble but it is not unloving. Especially if one is dealing with "Wolve's in Sheep's Clothing. If you want to know who the 'Wolve's' are please go to:
http://www.pro-gospel http://www.bereanbeacon.org http://www.angelfire.com
Okay, I don't have time to go through all the verbiage on your blog, so break it down for me please. Are you saying that these 2 bishops are actually telling the truth? And who are the wolves, please?
Catholic Bishops – The Vatican – they teach that you are saved by their church. Doctrine of the Rosary & Prayers to Mary. Doctrine of Purgatory. Doctrines of Indulgences & Good Works for the Dead. Sacraments are Necessary for Salvation.
Praying to and making Dead people saints (idols) etc. I do not have a blog. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/cat001.html
IT IS YOU BEVERLY WHO ALIGNS WITH THE ANTICHRIST… did you read
the TALMUD???
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/expelled.htm
what do moslems say about christ and his mother?
What do jews sy about christ and his mother?
dont be an idiot…
That should read http://www.pro-gospel.org
We saw the actions of the Vatican’s Hilarion Capucci running arms and guns for the PLO from Lebanon to the West Bank during the time of the Lebanese civil war even as the PLO was slaughtering Christians in Damour in 1976.
We see the Anglican leaders in Ateek and Tutu attacking Jews and Israelis to ingratiate themselves with the Muslim world.
this does not surprise m these men are dealing with the genocidal freaks of islam
obviously their not going to tell the truth because their scared to death of the muslim oppressors over them I think we need a final solution for islam.
Wildjew, from a Christians perspective I see both paths to salvation still fully intact. One via the birthright all Jews faithful to YHW receive, and the other path that YHW opened up to Gentiles via Yehsua (Jesus). This makes perfect sense, because while all of mankind cannot by definition become Jews YHW has also stated multiple times that his plan for restoring fallen man is for all of mankind not just Jews.
All true Christians must also believe the Jewish Scriptures by definition; which clearly states right in the beginning;
Genesis 12: 3 “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
This statement from YHW couldn’t be any clearer as too the proper view that both Jews and Christians should hold each other in as co-inheritors of the same salvation first understood by YHW’s chosen people (YHW had to start somewhere after all) and now through the Yehsua bestowed upon all of mankind.
Islam on the other hand is clearly Satan’s very own religion on Earth as it is the complete and absolute polar opposite of the Judeo/Christian understanding of both YHW’s message and everything YHW has revealed to us about his character over thousands of years.
For those paying attention a religion based upon poorly plagiarized excerpts from the Bible/Talmud mixed with the pre Mohammed Moon god/Stone idol worshiping rituals, sprinkled with the sensibilities of 7th century desert Bedouins, all tied together by the actions of thieving, raping, mass murderer, should under no circumstance be confused as having anything to do with an Abrahamic faith.
Then again since YHW and Satan are a package deal maybe Islam is part of the Abrahamic faith system after all. Islam is the Abrahamic faith for those on the bad side of the tracks. I mean after all, how can we have an epic end times fight without a whole bunch of Satan worshiping bad guys.
Paul,
I never understood that Oxymoron…maybe you can explain to me… how you can associate to dissimilar entitites? I mean, really, from the point of religion, Judeo-Muslim is far closer in similarity than Judeo-Christian…at least on the basis of Tawheed.
"Judeo – Christian"… forgive the over-simplification, but one says "Jesus is a liar" and one says "Jesus is divine"… So how does this term "Judeo/Christian" ariseout of that paradigm?
I mean, that's like saying its "Black-Whitism."
that's "two" derp…
Judeo-Christian is not an oxymoron. The term is used to describe the combined ethics of both religions: the ten commandments and the preachings of Jesus i.e. love your neighbour and turn the other cheek.
Also the expression is used in the Christian world to show what Christian ethics are taken from Judaism, it is not concerned with the status of Jesus in Judaism.
I don't think Judeo-Muslim works as Judaism is a non-imperalist, non-fundamentalist religion that has been through the enlightenment, WHEREAS Islam is the complete opposite.
I want to speak in absolutes, so there is no room for misunderstanding. One equals one, there is no way to misunderstand it. Truth is truth, however, is not absolute, because people want to argue about their version of “the truth”… I am sure you follow me.
Judeo-Christian is an oxymoron because there is no Tawheed in modern Christianity, NONE. The two are mutually exclusive…they are vector space R1 and R3 and can never be equated. Vector space R1 can describe only a single plane no matter how many points you put on it…it can never equate to vector space R3, in which any number of points you place on it describe a sphere. This is 0 not equal to 1, an absolute, they cannot be the same.
At a point in time, Islam and Judaism are fundamentally the same, Tawheed=Oneness of God.
The last Prophet to rise was not followed by all of the Jews, as was their covenenant with God, and the rest we know is history….and it leaves us arguing about our mutual versions of “the truth”
Abdullah (Slave of Allah), you misunderstand the Christian concept of the trinity of YHW. YHW is one in Christianity as well; it’s just that he presents himself in three different forms depending upon the environment.
YHW in heaven is the YHW that both Jews and Christians understand
YWH physically in the flesh upon the earth is Yeshua. In fact the descriptions of YHW walking the Garden Eden fit Yeshua perfectly.
YWH present within his followers is the Holy Sprit. Also present in the Jewish scripture in various places.
One YHW three forms.
To use an analogy it’s similar to how Water has three different forms, Liquid, Gas & Solid, all depending upon the environment (temperature, pressure).
Paul,
I have not misunderstood.
If you can think it, feel it, touch it, taste it, sense it, whatever "it" is is not God, it is something created by God.
God is seperate from creation.
Human beings suffer from their own limitations, and there is no limitation on God.
God is omnipresent, all powerful, not limited by time or space, so it is not possible to point and say "God is right there." because by believing so, and by imagining as such, you destroy the very essence and majesty of what it is to be God by putting a limitation of time and physical space on That which is timeless, unlimited, unrestricted, and absolute in power.
If you are worshipping that which you can imagine as a physical structure you are worshipping an idol, or you are worshipping an intermediary, and you are in violation of the ten commandments you may claim to follow.
Do we understand one another? I think we do…
Actually you are one putting limitations on YHW.
Are you saying YHW can’t be in two places at once? The Earth is off limits to YHW? That humans can go places YHW can’t? You would have us believe that YHW is trapped in Heaven?
Yet another example of polar opposite ideological of Islam to Judeo/Christian concepts. YHW is not ‘dissimilar’ to humans we were created in his image. Satan on the other hand is ‘dissimilar’ and hates mankind for the grace that YHW has given us. Even Mohammed himself said he thought he was talking to an evil sprit at first. I suggest to you he was right. Even you’re promised Mahdi has all the same characteristics and actions the Christian script predicts about the anti-Christ.
Are you beginning to see a pattern here?
Ironically understand Islam has given me a more profound understanding of the Judeo/Christian religion. After all it’s hard to understand Good without the contrast of Evil. I think the Buddhists got that part right.
Slave of Allah, You might want to brush up on statistical Islam with regards to both Jews and Christians.
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/index.html
Genesis 12: 3 “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you."
I don’t think YHW will be too happy with how Muslims when he comes back in the form of Yeshua. Might be an important safety tip you may not want to overlook, just saying.
BTW the Abrahamic God has a name its YHW and not Allah. YHW is our father in heaven and therefore are most definitely ‘not’ his slaves. Only Satan himself can make men slaves and then only of their own free will, Slave of Allah.
Not Jesus, but Catholic Cardinals want to cancel [holocaust again] the Hebrew bible and land. We should wait for Moses to deal with such evils instead of blaming Jesus for their crimes. Its not Jews but Christians who have been dislodged by Muslims in Arabia.
Only Moses can answer what the Hebrew bible says: Cardinals cannot cancel what they never observed and was never their own.
Abdulla.
You are wrong. Islam called the Hebrew bible distorted – while Christianity did not add or subtract and took the entire Hebrew bible. Islam took on Jesus as a prophet only for political reasons with no belief. There is no alignment in ethics, morality, Judiciary or Historical description for Jews with Islam. There has never been an honest statement from Islam ever – and Muslims keep silent of the greatest falsehoods in recorded history spread by Regime appointed clerics and media.
AN HONEST DISAGREEMENT IS BETTER THAN A DISHONEST AGREEMENT.
Honest disagreement…I honestly disagree with you, with civility. (Please, avoid glittering generalities that you cannot support or defend, in respect to your second to last comment.)
My belief is this, since you seem to want to polarize this discussion, there is no true Hebrew Bible in existence…the unaltered original is lost to history and we have a heavily edited translation that politically motivated men edited and voted on what was to be “in” and what was to be “out.” [Council of Nicea 325 AD (CE)]
contd. below…
“There is no…” I am shocked…have you even read your Old Testament? Even in the eighth major revision of the word it’s there plain as day to see…one cannot edit out all the similarities between Judaism and Islam, Tawheed – One God, absolute, period. That is the first major similarity in which the comparison “Judeo-Muslim” is solidified, and the concept does not exist in Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, or any Christianity that has been explained to me or that I have read of, other than perhaps the Volgate Bible, which I have not read, yet I was told it preaches Unitarian Christianity – or “Tawheed” Christianity. One God, no divisions, no partners, no descendants, no physical manifestations…so “Judeo-Christian” remains an Oxymoron in light of that one comparison.
“No God but God.” Islam “The Commandments” Judaism…read 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
Quid pro quo? What were you trying to say in your ALL CAPS comment?
Judeo-Muslim – you are really trying to sell this aren't you! Islam is missionary/imperialist whereas Judaism isn't. Islam can't be criticized, it is fundamentalist to it's core. Judaism has progressed on many a issue – It no longer retains the religious death penalty.
However there is a religion in this world that is non-imperalist and believes in one god, it is called Sikhism.
Judeo-Sikh – I like it, very East meets West. Also ethical in it's anti-imperalist stance.
You have pointed to what exists today, and neither you nor can perceive Judaism in its purity, or the followers of Jesus in their purity…but you can read of it in the Quran, and you can learn of it in the Hadiths.
I love the Jews for the sake of Moses because I love him, I love those who followed him, not those who refused, the same as I love Jesus and those who followed him, but not those who refused. I love those who followed Isaac and Ishmael and Abraham…none of them were Jews or Christians….they were True Believers.
Descended from Issac was Israel, and the Children of Israel were the twelve tribes of Israel…prior to them there were only True Believers, the Prophets, and those who followed them all the way back to Adam…I love them and those who followed them, not those who refused.
There is no difference in true Judaism and Islam, none. Those who followed the Torah would follow the Quran. Those who followed Jesus would follow Mohammad.
Those who love God for the sake of God would not abandon faith to follow men. Those who love Heaven would not abandon it at the price of dirt.
Abdullah (Slave of Allah) ,“there is no true Hebrew Bible in existence”
One small problem Slave of Allah, there are both Jewish and Christian scriptures in existence today that radio carbon pre-date Mohammed’s ravings by centuries.
The doctrine of corruption was required because the Koran is completely wrong on most Bible topics, so much for being perfect. Appears Allah isn’t any good at plagiarism either. Then again what better way to hide the true message of YHW for ¼ of mankind, pretty sneaky Satan.
You know what else they are nearly word for word identical to what you can buy at your local book store today. I suggest you pick yourself up a copy say a prayer to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (we should all be able to agree with that right?) for wisdom and start reading.
It worked for Walild Shoebat (former Muslim now likely the most prophetic Christian of our times), it should work for you too. Some of the most important Christians throughout history have been converts maybe you could join them and save your soul in the process, what a deal.
Predate by centuries? I guess that's correct, the edited version of the human generated word was agreed upon in 325 AD at the council of Nicea, wasn't it?
How many edits did it go through after that?
Alas, poor me, I am stuck with the first version original unchanged Quran…and it isn't a book printed on paper, it is memorized and recited exactly as it has always been.
And Walild Shoebat ? He's a liar, a fraud, and a charlatan, and that all comes from the Jerusalem Post investiagation about his claims…trust me, don't be dropping his name…it doesn't help your arguement.
325 AD for the Christian scripture is still hundreds of years before Mohammed, physical copies of the Jewish scripture are even older. Yet Mohammed instructed Muslims to read both. So the radio carbon dated versions nearly identically to today’s text were the same ones in existence in Mohammed’s day that he instructed Muslim to read.
And yet the Koran, Hadiths, and Sura contradicted the concepts, narrative, sprit and letter of what is contained in the Jewish and Christian scripture back then and to the present day.
Bit of a problem, so Muslims needed to ‘invent’ the doctrine of corruption since the whole foundation of their ideology is based on the Koran being perfect, having been written before the creation in heaven itself.
Something was corrupted all right but it was the Koran and Islam in general by Satan himself in order to kill all those faithful to YHW and hide the path of salvation for ¼ of mankind. Unfortunately you are part of that 1/4 it appears.
Why don't you read the bible and prove me wrong? What do you have lose?
In the near future everyone will have to decide which side to be on,Christian or muslem. Not that all will have to become either or but the great battle at hand will be between these two. Socialist types may well side with isalm but should islam win then the socialists will be the first to convert or die. But I happen to believe the Christians will win, in which case the world can again move foreward. And yes the socialists will still have their heads attached and can even go ahead and remain totally ignorant and immoral, if they choose. And yes there is absolute truth and the Christ is the pure embodyment of it.
"I don't think Judeo-Muslim works as Judaism is a non-imperalist, non-fundamentalist religion that has been through the enlightenment, WHEREAS Islam is the complete opposite. "
'Mary Richards'
… Christianity is the complete opposite too. It's colonialistic, imperialistic, crusading, fundamentalist history. What on earth are you talking about?
It's this kind of so called claptrap that I keep on seeing by Islamophobes – blinded by their own pasion and hatre. Christians hated Jews for over 2000 years; the worst atrocities, genocides were committed by Christians. This association is refering "to the early Christian church, whose members were Jewish converts and still considered themselves part of the Jewish community." Nothing more.
Christianity has nothing in common with Jews except persecution.
Have you read the Talmud regarding Christ BTW?
"For scholars of American religion," Newsweek states, "the idea of a single Judeo-Christian tradition is a made-in-America myth that many of them no longer regard as valid." It quotes eminent Talmudic scholar Jacob Neusner: "Theologically and historically, there is no such thing as the Judeo-Christian tradition. It's a secular myth favoured by people who are not really believers themselves."
Newsweek cites authorities who indicate that "the idea of a common Judeo-Christian tradition first surfaced at the end of the 19th century but did not gain popular support until the 1940s, as part of an American reaction to Nazism . . ," and concludes that, "Since then, both Jewish and Christian scholars have come to recognize that — geopolitics apart — Judaism and Christianity are different, even rival religions."
"Joshua Jehouda, a prominent French Jewish leader, observed in the late 1950s: "The current expression 'Judaeo-Christian' is an error which has altered the course of universal history by the confusion it has sown in men's minds, if by it one is meant to understand the Jewish origin of Christianity . . . If the term 'Judaeo-Christian' does point to a common origin, there is no doubt that it is a most dangerous idea. It is based on a 'contradictio in abjecto' which has set the path of history on the wrong track. It links in one breath two ideas which are completely irreconcileable, it seeks to demonstrate that there is no difference between day and night or hot and cold or black and white, and thus introduces a fatal element of confusion to a basis on which some, nevertheless, are endeavouring to construct a civilisation." (l'Antisemitisme Miroir du Monde pp. 135-6)."
"The Jerusalem Post accused the Christian Church of being responsible for the Holocaust. The French Jewish scholar Jules Isaac was quoted as saying: "Without centuries of Christian catechism, preaching, and vituperation, the Hitlerian teachings, propaganda and vituperation would not have been possible."
BTW, we in Europe are having a barrel of laughs over the view that most Americans beleive that Spencer is an "ISLAMIC SHOLAR" lol. He hasn't got the credentials, he's a "CUT & PASTE" artiste. Why are you American's so gullible?
The Nazi's were racist nordic pagans. Hitler hated Christianity and he personally thought Jesus Christ was "weak and feminine" and totally "unGermanic". There are several quotes by Hilter saying he had wished Islam had converted the German people because he belived the combination of Islam and German Nordic racial superiority would have made the Germans invincible. I suppose you don't know that because of the Nazi obession with race they also killed over 22 million slavic "subhuman" Russian and Ukrainian Orthodox Christian in the USSR during WW II and let's not forget the over 3 million Slavic Roman Catholic Polish people the Nazi's killed during the same time period.
Robert Spencer has as MA Degree in Religious Studies from the University of Chapel Hill, North Carolina. He has been studying Islamic theology, law, and history since 1980. He has written hundreds of well researched articiles and books about Islam and Islamic Jihad for over 20 years. I think he is as qualified as any supposedly "educated" European to talk about Islam. Europeans are welcoming an invasion of Islamic immigration which within a few generations will create large and influential Muslim minorities, and in large European cities Muslim majorities, which will change Europe in a direction people today and their ancestors would have never believed possible and certainly never wanted.
yeah , and the NATIVE AMERICANS and the INCA's and ABORIGINES 80 MILLION AFRICAN SLAVES
were all in awe with the white imperialists and conquistadors, slave masters
Who were the first people to practice raiding black Africa for slaves long after the Egyptians used blacks from Nubia as slaves to help build the pyramids? Arab Muslims! From the time of Mohammed Arab Muslims sent slave ships to East Africa to get black slaves hundreds of years before white Europeans bought slaves from Africans in West Africa after Columbus discoverd the new world in 1492. Did you know that Saudi Arabia only outlawed slavery (black slavery) in 1962 only 48 years ago? How about blacks used as slaves practiced today in southern Sudan in 2010 by Muslim Arabs from northern Sudan?
From the jews you got Jesus boiling in a vat of feces – THE TALMUD.