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I love to engage in serious debate and dialogue. It helps to put real issues on the table, it exposes weak positions and faulty reasoning, and it enables onlookers to hear both sides of the topic under discussion. It’s biblical, too, as referenced several times in Acts (see 9:22; 17:1-3, 16-17; 18:4, 27-28). And these debates often bear real fruit.
A few days ago, I spotted this comment on our YouTube channel: “Hello, Dr Brown. I just wanted to say, “I recently left Islam after watching some of your debates with Muslims about Muhammad being in the Bible or not.” Thank God!
At the same time, it’s very true that some people are not open to reason, and no amount of intellectual presentation will change their minds. The deception is that deep.
It is in this context that I was recently reminded of Paul’s words to Timothy, “And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will.” (2 Timothy 2:24–26)
This passage came to mind as I was reflecting on the degree to which some people are brainwashed, especially those in various cults. No matter how many verifiable facts you present to them, your words fall on deaf ears. They will believe that 2+2 is seven no matter what you show them because that’s what they were told. Plus, they were taught to distrust you as an outsider.
To be sure, there are always obstacles to overcome in any debate. There can be suspicion. Or hostility. Or misunderstanding. Or miscommunication. But when someone is incapable of dealing with your points rationally, you realize immediately that the battle you are fighting is more spiritual than intellectual.
For example, I have engaged in dialogue, discussion, and debate with Jewish rabbis for more than 50 years, and almost all of our interaction has been quite rational. We deeply disagree with each other. We believe that each one is reading the biblical text through a particular, biased lens. But we can challenge one another’s interpretation of the Hebrew or use of other sources in intellectually rational terms.
Of course, every debate about Jesus-Yeshua is ultimately spiritual, and in the end, only the Holy Spirit can open someone’s eyes to see. But at least you know that you can get someone thinking with rational argument – unless, that is, they are trapped in a cult or so heavily indoctrinated that they have lost the ability to think for themselves.
This can be very frustrating for those of us who love to reason and weigh facts and information. We present historical evidence, but they reject historians. We present indisputable linguistic data, but that’s just our interpretation. We present logical, calm arguments, but we’re dismissed as being emotional. We speak with love and grace, but we’re branded hateful. And on and on it goes.
Again, this is a reminder that our battle is ultimately more spiritual than intellectual and that it is only the Lord who can open the hearts and minds of those who are blinded and deceived. Thank God that He hears our prayers and reaches out to people in their lostness and blindness (He did that for me, for sure).
These days, I’m frequently reminded of all this in my interactions with the so-called Hebrew Israelites, especially the more extreme factions among them. They bear all the elements of a race-based, hate-filled, religious cult, including the inability to interact rationally. They will also parrot what their leaders say, which is another characteristic of a cult.
So, for example, in my opening comments of my debate with the leader of the radical Sicarii sect, I quoted or referenced 9 different biblical verses, putting several of them on the screen in both Hebrew and English. In fact, I started my formal arguments by reading a relevant verse which I posted in Hebrew and English. I also cited several academic studies and scholarly references, by name.
Yet I see comments like this all the time from those in the Hebrew Israelite camp: “Why is Brown not quoting a single verse from the Bible?” Or this: “Dr. Brown is not giving us any references. He is just talking.”
That is spiritual blindness.
I say, “Here’s what the Bible says,” and they reply, “Why don’t you ever quote the Bible?”
I say, “Here’s what history and archeology and linguistics and DNA say,” and they reply, “Why are you just spouting your emotions?”
This reminds me of an interaction I had with a Hebrew Israelite on a New York City subway more than 30 years ago.
I saw him pouring through the Bible with an intense focus and assumed he was a fellow believer. When I began to interact with him, he told me that he was Yoseph ben Yisrael (or a name similar to that). Then he pointed to a paragraph in the introduction to his Bible.
It stated that in the New Testament, there are many allusions to Old Testament verses. He looked at me with intensity in his eyes and said, “You see? It’s all illusions!”
That’s about as far as our discussion got. For him, an allusion was an illusion.
Others, in whatever group they’re in, are simply lost in a world of fantasy, like this recent commenter who stated, “This Dr. is telling a Bold Face LIE. The only HEBREW was Abraham. There has never been a Hebrew people in History until as recently as the 1800s. God never called His People Hebrew, Israelite, or Jew. He called His people by His own name, and I am not going to reveal to swine that they may turn and rend me.”
All of this can be refuted in a matter of seconds by searching your Bibles for the words Hebrew(s), Israelite(s), and Jew(s). Yet this individual is so deceived as to think I’m the one lying. How do you reason with someone like this?
One of my recent videos debunks the notion that the Lord’s name in Hebrew (or Aramaic) was Yahshua. (Of course, it was Yeshua. The name Yahshua never existed in Hebrew.)
In response, someone posted: “How interesting that I have access to 84 different translations of scripture that all use the name Yahuah and Yahusha. It also recorded ancient artifacts and temples throughout the world. Clearly Dr. Brown, you don’t know what you’re talking about.”
But of course.
These are 84 translations that no one on the planet has ever seen before, coupled with fictitious archeological finds “throughout the world.” And, of course, I have no idea what I’m talking about, despite presenting factual, non-controversial evidence of the ancient Hebrew, Greek, and Syriac texts in my video. Of course!
That’s why we must remember the spiritual nature of our battle. Only God can open the eyes of the blind.
So, yes, apologetics is very important for many reasons, and by the Lord’s grace, I will continue to engage in the defense of the faith on many fronts.
At the same time, I understand that the greatest battles will be won on our knees at the throne of God. Hear our cries, Father, and set the captives free!
Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all three based on FAITH and FANTASY not on reason and reality. Marxism and Nazism are also based on faith and fantasy not on reason and reality. The Aryan Race is a fantasy, The supernatural, super entity, Almighty Society, is a Marxist fantasy derived from religion.
“All three major religions have had to confront the ideas of the great Greek philosopher, Aristotle. Averroes tried to integrate Aristotle with Islam. Maimonides tried to integrate Aristotle with Judaism. Aquinas tried to integrate Aristotle with Christianity. All necessarily failed.
Rationality cannot be integrated with faith; nor reason with anti-reason; nor, in philosophy, fact with fantasy….
History reveals a two-thousand-year death struggle of faith versus reason; and though it is true that religion is not the only form of irrationalism plaguing the modern world, it remains one central form of it—most obviously in the case of Islam, the least-reformed of the three Middle-Eastern religions. The religious “method” of faith is irredeemably irrational and, as such, antithetical to human life. Conversely, Aristotle’s method of observation-based rationality is essential to human life. For any individuals genuinely concerned to promote man’s earthly life, the takeaway lesson from this monumental struggle is that they must support reason over faith—which means: Aristotle over religion.
The death struggle of reason versus anti-reason continues. Everyone must choose a side.” – Objectivist philosopher Andrew Bernstein
“The Enduring Positive Legacy of Aristotle – Aristotle Versus Religion (7 of 7)”
“History reveals a two-thousand-year death struggle of faith versus reason”
Wow, THX’s two-thousand-year death struggle. Guess what, faith has won. And didn’t you post the Bernstein screed in another article today, including the next one?
Greek philosophy, your foundation and bedrock of the rational and scientific beginnings and aspects of Western Civilization, folded like a cheap suit in the face of the spread of Christianity, which absorbed the teachings of your pagan heroes. Your heroes worshiped many Gods. So what is your problem with God? Without Christianity Greek history would resemble those ruins that everyone takes selfies at. Without Christianity no one would remember or care about the Greeks.
Looks like the Greeks were so busy with their little boys they lost out.
I have reached two irrational, non-evidentiary truth claims of THX:
1. Reason is man’s mind. Reason always produces good (because it cannot be used as a tool for evil, being one of the transcendentals).
2. Man’s mind / reason produces truth.
Notice the violation of the transcendentals of Plato and Aristotle? He replaces them all with Reason as the first principle without precedence!
This explains his dealing almost entirely with others in a hateful, mocking way and engaging them with quotes from his “scriptures” rather than his own reasoning from their presuppositions.
You’re a thoroughly DISHONEST individual. Shame on you.
You deliberately misrepresented and misconstrued my statements last week that I posted on Danusha Goska’s article “Beauty and Ugliness”. When I called you on it you backtracked and seemingly apologized.
But as I can see now it was only a specious apology because you knew you could do nothing but speciously apologize or be caught in your abject attempt at dishonestly smearing me.
I am laughing hysterically. Looks like she finally got to you. You are such a thin-skinned little man.
You definitely don’t like to be challenged. Do you honestly think anyone is going to remember what you wrote from last weeks, article by Ms. Goska? As if these examples of your 1st grade level writing are tracts that will actually stand the test of time.
Oh yeah, Ms. Goska still won’t date you
I apologized for losing the thread in our long discussion in which I did not properly quote you.
My misquote is that you believe reason / man’s mind produced reality. Your accurate quote has reason PRODUCING truth – a transcendental.
You have repetitively stated that “reason” is “man’s mind.” This means that man is God – and you and Ayn Rand are gods who PRODUCE the transcendentals!
But you have to shoehorn the transcendentals into your religion because objectivism has no truth, no beauty, no unity, and no goodness. It is a parasite borrowing from Greek philosophy, Judaism and Christianity. It is basically Enlightenment redux. Cultish worship of man and imbuing him with producing truth. Wow.
Hubris, anyone?
Looks like your fellow Lutherans were as busy worshipping Hitler (and killing Jews) as they were Jesus. And now your Lutheran Church is eagerly and greedily receiving hundreds of millions of tax-payer dollars to house, feed, clothe, and feed the illegal alien invasion and destruction of America.
So is the Catholic Church and the Methodist Church.
All in the name of Christian ALTRUISM.
“Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of their reason….
Fie on you wherever you be, you damned Jews, who dare to clasp this earnest, glorious, consoling Word of God to your maggotry, mortal, miserly belly, and are not ashamed to display your greed so openly….
In like manner we must endure the authority of the prince. If he misuse or abuse his authority, we are not to entertain a grudge, seek revenge or punishment. Obedience is to be rendered for God’s sake, for the ruler is God’s representative. However they may tax or exact, we must obey and endure patiently.” – Martin Luther
That’s it? Your silly childish attack on the Lutheran Church? Don’t you have any new material?
If this is supposed to make me feel guilty or bad , you simply sound like a whiny child. I am not responsible for the sins of my fathers, from 700 years ago, 400 years ago, or eighty years ago. So nice try once again…..you have failed. Unlike you, I live in the present. It is you that is obsessed with hundreds of years old Christian wars.
If you have a problem with Luther and Lutheranism take it up with:
Lutheran Social Services, if you have the guts. I’m sure they would be happy to talk with you.
Lutheran Social Services of Minnesota
2485 Como Avenue
St. Paul, MN 55108
800.582.5260
I know you won’t because you don’t have the stones to put your money where your fat mouth is. You are the reason for the decline in America…..you and your Leftist buddies.
Looks like you are still married to your lies about Lutherans and Hitler.
Didn’t Otto K. Gross gently suggest you read two books to alleviate your persistent ignorance on that topic?
He said:
“You’re confusing Gemeinschaft with Christian beliefs and using a very broad brush there.
And to help you understand the Nazi position on Christianity I’d suggest a book. “Why Hitler Came Into Power”, by Theodore Abel written in 1938. Christianity was a means to an end in the plot to gain control and not part of the philosophy. It’s an excellent book written in the pre-war years and has an honest recount of events. It has interviews that would dispute your perceived stance of the Christainity and the various branches.
Like Dr. Goska’s, “Beiganski”, it’s based on facts and first hand interviews. No bias to support a personal view hammering away inconvenient facts or reality, no cultural fiction. no agenda. I hope you bought and read that too.
My best to Ayn.”
No one can get through the cult mentality to which you are enthralled. You are not an individual and you have no free will. You are a slave who is unable to think but only regurgitates bits and pieces in cut-and-paste frenzies totally unaware of your lack of evidence, coherence or logic.
He obsesses about the supposed Hitler/Lutheran connection as a way to try to insult me. That’s really all he as since he refuses to deal with me as an adult. And my constant needling and ridicule of him seems to get to him. He is such a “dandy lion”.
All he can do is downvote me. And he probably won’t read the books you suggest. He is too busy giving us homework assignments.
Kynarion, please keep it up. You are getting to him.
I bet you cannot give a single example from the bible in which reason and faith are pitted against one another.
I bet you cannot give a single example from the bible of any incident in which faith is used as a means to knowledge (as you falsely claim).
If you cannot do this, how do you escape the fact that your screeds are against straw men?
Examples of faith in anti-reality in contradiction to reason and the laws of reality are abundant in the Bible.
From Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden to the Parting of the Red Sea and Noah’s Ark, to the Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, Resurrection, and Ascension Into Heaven. These are claims that violate the Law of Identity and the Law of Causality, the laws on which reality, reason, logic, and science are based.
These are supernatural, not natural, logical, and scientific, mystical miracles that cannot be accepted as true on the basis of reason but only on faith. If you want to accept these supernatural, mystical, miracles on faith, that is your choice, but you do not have the right to claim that your belief in supernatural miracles is based on reason.
“The idea of the “supernatural” is an assault on everything man knows about reality. It is a contradiction of every essential of a rational metaphysics. It represents a rejection of the basic axioms of philosophy (or, in the case of primitive men to grasp them)….
Can God perform miracles? A “miracle” does not mean merely the unusual. If a woman gives birth to triplets, that is unusual; if she were to give birth to elephants, that would be a miracle. A miracle is an action not possible to the entities involved by their natures; it would be a violation of identity.” – Leonard Peikoff
Ah yes, THX’s favorite list of biblical horribles that prove out all of his anti-religion screeds.
“Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden to the Parting of the Red Sea and Noah’s Ark, to the Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, Resurrection, and Ascension Into Heaven.”
So you throw around a couple of ‘logic’ concepts to make yourself look like a big guy because you know no one will challenge you on it, and basically no one cares. Even the definitions of these two concepts are almost unreadable. No wonder you think you are Spock. Your crap is unreadable as well. However, “few systems of logic are built on just these laws” according to your favorite source….Wikipedia.
Fortunately for the rest of us you weren’t there back in biblical times so you have no proof that these things didn’t occur. So you do what all atheists do, you ridicule God like an insecure child. You are pathetic.
All Friend THX knows about the Bible is that it features a talking snake. Beyond that, it is impenetrable darkness to him.
You do not show faith leading to knowledge. You simply give random examples of supernatural phenomena.
If God is a supernatural being (which is a necessary prerequisite to being the Author and Creator of all that is), is it not logical that He can step into His creation and re-order it as He wishes? Calming storms, rising from the dead, making dead people live again, etc. etc.?
Or do you only believe in your navel? What you can see, hear and taste? What you can know with the meat inside your skull? Most people dispense with the idea of personal wisdom after their teen years (when parents suddenly grow wiser). Where did you go off track?
Christianity is the enemy of reason and science, so is Judaism, and so is Islam. So is Hinduism. All forms of religion, faith, unreason, and mysticism are essentially and ultimately enemies of reason, logic, science, and reality.
“Christianity’s War against the Mind – Aristotle Versus Religion (5 of 7)” – Objectivist philosopher Andrew Bernstein
If “Christianity is the enemy of reason and science, so is Judaism,” why were so many great scientists Christians and Jews?
To stay alive … re: Giordano Bruno.
Newton and Einstein both believed in G-d
“It’s true because Newton and Einstein said it’s true” or “It’s false because Newton and Einstein said it’s false” is not how one finds out what is really true or really false.
One must check to see if a person’s claim, any and every claim, is actually true in reality.
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and the facts of reality and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”
― Buddha Siddhartha Guatama Shakyamuni
Newton had to profess Anglican beliefs to have a university career. His private notes suggest significant disbelief especially in the trinity; had he been able to discuss openly with others, who knows if he would believe at all.
Einstein believed in a pantheistic God, expressed deist beliefs and at times agnosticism but he certainly didn’t believe in the God of Abraham as the author of this article.
Once again, the times tell us what belief is possible without punishment, ostracism or death. What people believe under duress is a shameful legacy of religion’s intolerance and shouldn’t be exploited to claim someone for their side.
Oh, Miranda Rose! How could you think Einstein and Newton had anything on THX?
Now, repent immediately and worship Ayn Rand and Lenny Peikoff. Or know the wrath of THX!
Correlation is not causation. Islam had its brief Golden Age of reason and science too until reason and science were rejected because they contradicted the faith.
The Muslim and Christian scientists embraced reason and science not because of their faiths but in spite of them.
The Christians and Jews acquired the Ancient Greek works of Aristotle from the Muslims once the Muslim Golden Age collapsed and the Christians reconquered Muslim Spain.
“As Islamic civilization writhed, Christians reconquered from the Muslims large areas of Spain. They had access to the great Islamic centers of learning in southern Spain. In the 12th century, Archbishop Raymund I of Toledo supported Catholic, Jewish, and Muslim scholars in another great translation movement, mirroring that of Baghdad three centuries earlier, but this time translating Greek masterpieces from Arabic into Latin, the language of European scholars.71 Predictably, as it had done centuries before, the Church resisted study of Greek philosophy. Durant points out: “In 1210 a Church council at Paris . . . forbade the reading of Aristotle’s ‘metaphysics and natural philosophy;’” a “prohibition . . .repeated by a papal legate in 1215.”72
But this time the Church failed.
After centuries of Christians rejecting a rational study of nature, Europeans witnessed the superior culture and living standards of Islamic Spain—for example, the startling street lights of Cordoba. Leading European minds, although still Catholic, were determined to gain a greater understanding of the natural world—and nobody, at that point in history, had attained a knowledge of nature equal to Aristotle’s. Albertus Magnus (1193–1280), his brilliant student Thomas Aquinas (1225–74), and other great minds of the period risked their lives to carefully study, teach, and write on Aristotle. These scholars revived in Christian Europe the long-dormant fields of rational philosophy and natural science.” – Andrew Bernstein
For God’s sake, please stop. Nobody is going to read your version or Bernstein’s (who?) of history, knowing you distort everything to fit your silly objectives.
I’m surprised you didn’t include that moronic insert by Bernstein for the 4th time.
Are the bruises on your head healing yet as you bash your head against the wall?
I wonder how many Nobel Laureates in the hard sciences are Objectivists by ancestry and faith.
Yeah yeah Yeah. Religion is the enemy of science and reason. Same old garbage each and every day.
You are so caught up in your little world you can’t even see that your approach is very off putting to a growing number of people on this site. Maybe you should listen to them. Stop doing what you are doing. Stop posting your insufferable Rand spam. You are the worst possible promoter of your moribund philosophy. It pisses off a lot of people. You are simply too self-centered to realize it.
Christianity (2000 yrs) and Judaism (5000 yrs) aren’t going away and Rand isn’t even out of the starting gate. Just another dime-a-dozen atheist grift.
Nice life you have carved out for yourself, loser. Sucks to be you.
No one in history has proven with primary documents (ie. Matthew , Mark, Luke John, Paul and others of the period) that Old Testament Messianic prophecies refer to anyone else in history but Jesus Christ. They have also never proven that Jesus did not raise from the dead or that he was not who he said he was (read the gospel of John).. There’s plenty of “theories”. All have been shown to be only opinion and yet the same sceptics will believe Aristotle, Homer, Socrates, the Egyptians, Sumerians or………pick one. Rejection of the Creator’s provided redemption through Christ is just plain old hatred of God
Can you explain why belief in the supernatural is irrational?
Can you give one example of faith being the enemy of reason?
Your god, Ayn Rand, claimed to be God. Do you think that was rational?
Ayn Rand never claimed to be a supernatural God. Where did Ayn Rand claim that she created the universe, that she was supernatural, that she had supernatural powers, that she was to be obeyed? NOWHERE!
“The highest tribute to Ayn Rand, is that her critics must distort everything she stood for in order to attack her. She advocated reason, not force; the individual’s rights to freedom of action, speech, and association; self-responsibility, NOT self-indulgence; and a
live-and-let-live society in which each individual is treated as an END, not the MEANS of others’ ends. How many critics would dare honestly state these ideas and say, ” . . .and that’s what I reject”? –Barbara Branden
Rand never created anything except a failed philosophy that ran its course about 50 years ago. You simply don’t know when to accept that it’s over. If you are an example of an Objectivist, with all of the hatred and bigotry you display, why would anyone want to embrace it.
No one cares anymore except for a few deranged disciples, like you, hiding out at ARI. No one cares about either of the Brandons either.
Here ya go:
“And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride. This god, this one word: ‘I.”
― Ayn Rand
Well done. But he will find a way to explain what she really meant. Watch and wait.
You do notice that Ayn Rand uses the word “god” with a lowercase “g” do you not?
Which means she is not referring to the mystical, supernatural, Yahweh or Allah, but to a natural god that can re-arrange nature to achieve his well-being and happiness. A god closer to the gods of Mount Olympus than some supernatural Paradise.
“Ancient Greece tore away the heavy shroud of mysticism woven for centuries in murky temples, and achieved, in three centuries, what Egypt had not dreamed of in thirty: a civilization that was essentially pro-man and pro-life. The achievements of the Greeks rested on their confidence in the power of man’s mind — the power of reason. For the first time, men sought to understand the causes of natural phenomena, and gradually replaced superstition with the beginnings of science. For the first time, men sought to guide their lives by the judgment of reason, instead of resorting exclusively to divine will and revelation.
The Greeks built temples for their gods, but they conceived of their gods as perfect human beings, rejecting the cats, crocodiles and cow-headed monstrosities enshrined and worshiped by the Egyptians. Greek gods personified abstractions such as Beauty, Wisdom, Justice, Victory, which are proper human values. In the Greek religion, there was no omnipotent mystical authority and no organized priesthood. The Greek had only a vague idea of, and little interest in, an afterlife. His religious practice was, essentially, an affair of state; the gods were honored with civic rites and festivals. On the whole, in his private life, he was left free to think and to seek happiness on earth.” – Mary Ann Sures
“Ancient Greece was not a religious civilization, not on any of the counts I mentioned. The Gods of Mount Olympus were like a race of elder brothers to man, mischievous brothers with rather limited powers; they were closer to Steven Spielberg’s extra-terrestrial visitor than to anything we would call “God.” They did not create the universe or shape its laws or leave any message of revelations or demand a life of sacrifice. Nor were they taken very seriously by the leading voices of culture, such as Plato and Aristotle. From start to finish, the Greek thinkers recognized no sacred texts, no infallible priesthood and no intellectual authority beyond the human mind; they allowed no room for faith.” – Leonard Peikoff
Where’s that from? Anthem?
He really didn’t answer your questions did he? He is more concerned about defending the honor of some deceased person.
Go get ’em Kynarion.
Pretty soon he will stop responding to you. The only thing he ever responds to me with are 500 year old Lutheran screeds and his obsession with Lutherans during the 3rd Reich
I LOVED Otto K. Gross’ gentle rebuke of him. The man obviously was very knowledgeable about Nazis and Lutheranism.
Of course, it did not penetrate.
I feel like chipping away today, but I need to get dinner on the table.
His tendency to hold on to beloved lies against all facts makes a fairly easy target. He hides the bones of his belief system in lots of cut-and-paste quotes that do not address the point. He made the mistake of giving me a simple foundation the other day, so I stayed with it. He tried desperately to wiggle out of it, but I chipped away. At the end of it, I did slightly misquote him but came back to his proper quote and he used the opportunity to pretend he was finished with my stupidity and that I needed to educate myself.
I didn’t see it except in your post. Obviously he didn’t take Gross seriously enough to get those books. Do you remember where you saw it?
Did I not tell you that he would find a way to explain what AR meant by God.
“You do notice that Ayn Rand uses the word “god” with a lowercase “g” do you not?
Which means she is not referring to the mystical, supernatural, Yahweh or Allah, but to a natural god that can re-arrange nature to achieve his well-being and happiness. A god closer to the gods of Mount Olympus than some supernatural Paradise.” – THX
Of course he has to fall back on his boyfriend for clarification. He can’t even rely on his own bizarre thoughts.
Reply button no longer possible, Intrepid, so I will reply to my post to which you replied.
The Otto K. Gross comment to THX was after Ms. Goska’s article here:
As for the Ayn Rand quote claiming deity for herself, THX makes much of the use of lowercase “g” for god, but notice he does not deny her claim to deity (for himself or for Rand).
Dear Dr. Brown: You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
I have one question about Christianity: How could Jesus be the only begotten Son of God, born of a virgin, AND the son of Joseph, the descendant of King David the Messiah ben David?
Some say Mary came from the same line, which would have made her and Joseph cousins.
Inter family marriage was probably more common than not in those days.
””Both Mary and Joseph were descendants of King David (Matthew 1:6, 17-18 and Luke 3:23-24, 31-32). Therefore, Mary provided the biological connection between King David to Jesus Christ. Joseph provided the legal connection or right of royalty ascension to the Davidic throne.””
Dear Roberta: Thank uou:-].
There’s also this interesting incident recorded by early Church historians that happened I think) during the time of emperor Domitian. It’s more historical than theological perhaps, but it’s said that two of Jesus’ great-nephews were arrested by Roman authorities on suspicions surrounding their family’s Davidic ancestry and a religious sect that was based in part on that.
I guess the nephews appeared to the Romans too much like ordinary commoners though to realistically have the capacity of reviving an ancient royal dynasty. The nephews also seemed to be able to convince the authorities of the non-militancy of their beliefs and so ended up being released. I think they are commended later (possibly canonized?) for not disavowing anything while under questioning even though it was risky.
** Hegesippus and Eusebius are the sources for that story.. (not that many people will likely find that super interesting… but it was kind of eating away at me so I had to track it down..)
Two genealogies for Jesus Christ are given in the New Testament. One is Joseph’s (who adopted Mary’s child, Jesus, as his own) and the other is Mary’s.
The Messiah must be a descendant of David to be entitled to the throne. Both Mary and Joseph’s genealogies have David as a direct ancestor. The genealogies are incredibly interesting when considering the curse of Jeconiah (Jeremiah 22:30) to fail to have an ancestor to sit upon the eternal throne. Jeconiah is in Joseph’s lineage, but NOT in Mary’s. Joseph’s lineage creates legal title, while Mary’s creates another blood connection to David, skipping Jeconiah / Jehoiachin. Rehab the harlot is in there, as well as Ruth the Moabitess.
Jesus’ Father is the LORD God. Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and was made man in the womb of a virgin, whom we know as Mary. This miraculous conception took place before the marriage ceremony and consummation, in accordance with the scriptures (Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6). Joseph was, at first, understandably unwilling to go through with the marriage because of it.
Joseph’s genealogy is found in Matthew 1. His father is listed as “Jacob” in Matthew 1:16. Mary’s genealogy is found in Luke 3. It lists all her male ancestors and includes Joseph, Mary’s husband, as of Heli (Luke 3:16). Heli was Mary’s father, father-in-law to Joseph.
I hope this helps.
Quite an elaborate supernatural fantasy as elaborate as the fantasy universe of Judaism, Islam, or Hinduism. What a fantasy cult the Cult of Jesus really is.
Poor little THX. No way to logically refute or defeat the word of God. So you go to your safe space. Ridicule and insult.
You are a small minded little man. You have nothing going on in your life.
Why do you always try to make your point in a hateful manner?
If your point is good, it should make itself by being obvious once stated.
Using ridicule is one thing, being hateful another.
You are turning off potential agreement.
Because he is a hateful person who is making zero headway in converting us all into his silly Objectivist cult. Over the years I can count the number of people who actually agree with him on one hand.
He has no point to make. Here is his philosophy distilled down it’s essence:
Altruism…bad.
Jesus…..bad
Christianity…………bad
Judaism…….bad
Judeo-Christianity is Leftism……bad
Judaism and Christianity are oriental…..bad
Christianity prepared the ground for modern totalitarianism….bad
Medieval Christianity was a totalitarian system…..bad
God and magical thinking…….bad
Atheism….good
Greeks……good
Christian Dark Age….bad
Renaissance and enlightenment …..good
Greek philosophers……good
Christian philosophers…….bad
selfishness “properly defined”, rational selfishness….good
Objectivist reason and reality….good
Altruism…bad.
Repeat ad infinitum. The Big Lie in practice.
And there we have the simplistic world according to our rezidentura fraud…..THX
There is not arguing with a cultist
If it were fantasy, then all the people in the genealogy would not be real.
it is like you only hit whiffle balls.
Dear Roberta: Thank uou:-].
OOPS. Duplicate. Sorry
Can I delete this?
“The issue on the table is not the issue. The issue is the table.”
I have the feeling that some people are prone to conformism, and these people become Democrats and believe everything the elites say. Leftism is not a cafeteria where people can choose what they like or do no like, they have to accept it all. Just as in a marriage one has to accept everything about the partner, although no one really does. If you cite any text that disagrees with leftism, they reject it as erroneous and do not even want to hear what it says. So, there is no discussion. That is probably why the Dems almost always vote a straight party line in Congress, while some Republicans sometimes dissent with their party. The leftist party line is also very conformist in nature. Diversity, equity and inclusion are all about rejecting individualism and embracing collective ideals.. In the same way, intensely committed religious people do not listen to any rational arguments that disagree with their doctrines, just as committed leftists reject all other views as false. That is why the Democrats almost all endorse trans-sexuality, abortion, LGBTQ, open borders, socialism, just everything the leftist elites proclaim they immediately support it. Even sexualizing children at school, encouraging sex-change for children, denying that there are just two sexes. It is all accepted because they have to accept whatever the party line is. It is not a rational thing.
Thank you for your posting. It makes total sense and helps me to understand some leftist family members!
Very insightful. Thank you.
Do you ever wonder why evil fights so hard against the bible to deceive and distract people from knowing about the Creator, and against the truth? Satan is the real enemy…..the devil, and he wants you to ignore the spiritual reality behind the physical one. As long as you’re focused on what you can see with your physical eyes, he can continue to run rampant underneath the surface. The enemy may be invisible, but he is not fictional. He is very real and persistent, waging war against humanity constantly.
The prayer from Ephesians describes the Spiritual Battle. Ephesians 6:12. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breast plate of righteousness.
This battle is unavoidable. Its the classic struggle of Good against Evil.
Thank you for your comment. It reminds me that we are not to grow weary in well-doing.
And there is no need of encouragement to do evil. It seems to carry its own unwearying energy.
The NEA run Schools where Christ is banned but Satan is welcome
Dear Jason P: I know Newton was a Unitarian.
Dear THX 1138; ,Gregor Mendel, the father of genetics, was not only a religipus man, he was a monk.