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A common excuse for the war we in Ukraine hear these days is that it was about Russian fears of NATO moving in. Is Putin really worried about having the Europeans in Ukraine? Apparently not.
U.S. President Donald Trump said Monday that Russian President Vladimir Putin was ready to accept European peacekeepers in Ukraine in a potential breakthrough that could help end the Kremlin’s war against Kyiv.
“He will accept that. I have asked him that question,” Trump said of Putin, when asked directly about the deployment of European troops. “Look, if we do this deal, he’s not looking for more war … I’ve specifically asked him that question. He has no problem with it.”
That makes no sense if Putin started this war because he was worried about NATO in Ukraine, but historically that was never the issue.
Putin’s first known interview, long before taking power, had him ranting about the breakup of the USSR and the ‘republics’ going their own way. Russian nationalists see the existence of Ukraine as a historic humiliation.
Do they want NATO in there? No. But they’re also not remotely afraid of NATO. Why would they be? Look at the current state of Europe and its military forces. And, more importantly, its political leadership.
Contrary to everything you’ve heard, Putin isn’t worried about Europe. This war was about Russia claiming territory that it believes belongs to it. If the deal comes with some Europeans playing soldier, Putin isn’t worried. He has no reason to be. Having Europeans on the ground will primarily increase pressure on Ukraine to avoid any conflict, while giving Moscow an extra set of cards.
Nobody’s afraid of NATO. Least of all the Russians. (Sadly, they’re not especially afraid of us either. Our track record of winning wars isn’t great.)
Bad intelligence information got the Russians into this mess. Bad intelligence information is part of my current reading. Fascinating topic, touches on the psychology of the individuals involved as well.
Need to have at least 2 independent sources of information. One from those on the front lines as well as the centralized national intelligence organization. They have different priorities and points of view.
Even I could have told them the invasion was a mistake, if only because of the weather (currently reading about Ukraine in 1944 on the Eastern Front 🙂
Yes, I figure Putin will keep the territory he’s seized and withdraw with minor quibbles over this and that with the Ukraine. Ukraine being Zelenskyy and its oligarchs, and Russia being Vlad, of course.
The only reason Putin doesn’t want Ukraine in NATO is because if he then invaded Ukraine it would pull in NATO.
NATO is a strictly defensive organisation and if a member of NATO decides to attack another country it’s on it’s own.
NATO is strictly for show and only wants to wallow in money and graft, not fight. It’s never fought a war in its history and never will.
Other than the USA, what NATO nations military has the will or means to take action on the battlefield?
China, unfortunately for civilization.
Poland, and to a lesser degree Finland and the Baltic states (only because the latter can’t individually prevail in a sustained fight with Russia). They are all very clear about the threat from Putin and Russia and are increasing their defense capacity in response to Russia’s imperialist ambitions. These countries have long memories of the periods when the Soviets were occupiers and had their boot on their necks.
the French who have their own agendas
Poor froggies. President Trump mocked Macron publicly the other day.
Nobody is afraid of NATO, that’s for sure. It’s one of those organizations which only exists for the furtherance of its existence. Its members just want to wallow in the free wealth and graft they’re given by its member states to play with, not actually fight battles, much less a war with Russia.The reasons for its creation were replaced with a mission of self perpetuation long ago, before the Cold War with the Soviet Union even ended, if you ask me.
Unless NATO can find a Duchy of Grand Fenwick to pick on for show, it isn’t going to fight anybody. Putin farts in its general direction.
That reminded me, I think it was under Bill Clinton that NATO began to unravel.
Yeah Billdo Clinton, who bombed the Serbians in favor of the Islamic Bozniaks, who started all that insane violence in former Yugoslavia. China got US satellite and orbital weapons plans from Billdo, too. I guess he kept busy when he wasn’t raping women.
This is about Poohtys’ plan to rebuild Russian glory. Remember Chechenia and Georgia in 2008? Crimea and now Ukraine. Russia is NOT a significant power anymore. They are just a commodity store. However many aging careers at State and Defense were built on the Russian “menace”. As these people retire or croak many things will settle down in Europe. Well except for the worship of Allah in the new moslem Empire of Europe.
Hmm, this would appear to nix important aspects of the arguments from people like Douglas MacGregor and Jeffrey Sachs, yes? I just exchanged emails with a woman from Ukraine via Ebay, who said that most Ukrainians, in her view, just want the war to be over, no matter what the deal is.
Shreds the entire premise that this was about Russia’s fear of Europeans in its area.
Putin had Burns’ assurances that he could go in and reclaim Ukraine into his “sphere of interests” – perfectly in line with Burns’ asinine papers from his days at the State Department. The so-called Special Military Operation did not go as well as he hoped it would, and now the prospect of energy market going down makes it untannable for him to continue.
NATO has become meaningless, and I think the USA”s perfidy has been largely to blame for it. We broke our promises over and over.
We now have an alpha male who loves his country at the helm. Putin is of like kind. There is hope they can understand one another and their country’s needs, strengths and weaknesses and make a great “deal” deal together. They were both right to ignore Zelinsky, who represents the very worst kind of leader. He and Biden got along beautifully because they were like two peas in a pod.
…yeah, so much love is scattered around the fields of Eastern Ukraine. I’m glad I’m not loved THIS much.
Putin stated over and again he would not accept NATO nukes in Ukraine which is exactly what NATO Chief Stoltenberg was beating his chest over leading up to the Russian offensive.
Peacekeepers are a far cry from front line nukes.
Kennedy would not accept that in Cuba and it almost started WWIII.
Not to mention the CIA helping a communist opposition leader overthrow an elected president and afterwards the constant offensives against its own Russian supporting population.
There was no “coup.” Yanukovich was ousted by his own Rada. The “Euromaidan CIA Coup” conspiracy theory was propaganda spread by leftists trying to absolve Yanukovich from any wrongdoing.
> the constant offensives against its own Russian supporting population
You mean false flag operations being carried out by the Russian army under FSB agent Igor Girkin.
Nukes are irrelevant.
Nukes in Ukraine add no strategic value to the nukes already in Germany and Turkey.
Or the intercontinental ballistic ones here in America and on hidden nuclear submarines, for that matter.
“This war was about Russia claiming territory that it believes belongs to it.”
And what would the Russian tribe do with all that extra land? NOTHING at all, they would turn it into another stagnating part of the Russian tribal reservation.
Just like the Mexican tribe would turn Texas and California into another Mexican tribe reservation.
Mexico would transmogrify California and Texas into crime ridden barrios if it could. Both controlled by the cartels, of course.
Exactly. Like the Democrat Sanctuary Cities.
If Pootler wanted Ukraine, why doesn’t he want Ukraine?
Sorry, but this is just too much ‘theory’ and not enough on the ground reality.
Ukrop Nazis and Azov battalion units were terrorizing Russians all the way back in the 90s.
I understand. If you’ve been to Ukraine – it’s all Russians’ fault. (Because they have white skin don’t you know.)
My Ukrainian friends frankly sound like lunatics – unless you believe in the Holomoder (both of them, which I do btw).
But the Russians have their own story.
The first Russian engineers I trained came from Mariupol and Kharkiv. Their stories also sounded crazy – unless you knew the Ukrainian Nazis were serious about ethnically cleansing all of Ukraine of its Russians.
Again: The latest phase of this war began with Ukrainian Nazi terrorism in the Dombass. Their hatred for Russians may or may not be entirely justified, but they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Dombass,
and no politician that’s not a Western politician would stand for that.
In fact, if a white identity group in Europe treated Muslims the same way Ukrainians treat Russians
The Lefties would bring back concentration camps for the ‘whiteys.’
No one would put up with such terrorism.
But because Russians are our enemy (in the Israel-Hamas war),
it’s okay to kill Russian kids with cluster bombs?
No. That’s not only not moral; It’s a ‘theory’ intended to sow division and enmity.
“…Again: The latest phase of this war began with Ukrainian Nazi terrorism in the Dombass. Their hatred for Russians may or may not be entirely justified, but they wanted to ethnically cleanse the Dombass, ”
You nailed it.
My sister-in-law’s family in Dombass repeatedly sent photos of bomb fragments and entire unexploded warheads which were clearly identifiable as Ukraine military.
Unless it’s false flag propaganda (sarc).
It’s a false flag. It was orchestrated by FSB agent Igor Girkin.
“DOHA, February 26. /TASS/. Russia is not considering any options regarding the deployment of European peacekeepers in Ukraine, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said.
“We cannot and will not consider any such options. I don’t know what [French President Emmanuel] Macron said [about the deployment of European peacekeepers in Ukraine], he was not very convincing in Washington, but [US] President [Donald Trump], when this issue was raised during the press conference, said, as far as I’ve read, that the decision on the deployment of peacekeepers is possible only with the agreement of both sides, meaning, I suppose, us and Ukraine. But nobody is asking us,” he said at the press conference on the results of his visit to Qatar.
“The approach imposed by the Europeans, that is, first of all, France, as well as the British, is aimed at further escalation of the conflict and thwarting all attempts to de-escalate it,” the top diplomat pointed out.”
Welp, there goes the theory.